BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: bowler231 on January 15, 2015, 09:26:06 PM
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I'm looking for a layout suggestion for more forward roll on a heavy oil THS.
My stats are RH
15.8 MPH
350 RPM's
20* axis tilt
Layout will be a for a symmetrical ball with a strong cover and low rg core.
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I've had success with a Hammer Cold Blood at 50 x 3 x 30 which allowed me to add a p3 hole for more flare. Played well on High Street during summer league and it rolled great for me yesterday on Dead Man's Curve.
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33/8 oin to pap. Higher Val 50-70 and cg positioned for a lower hole. Full flare
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33/8 oin to pap. Higher Val 50-70 and cg positioned for a lower hole. Full flare
So what do you think about 35* x 4 x 60*?
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The 35 means nothing on a symetrical. Depends in where it positions the cg with your pap to position a weight hole . 4 inches to pap is full flare. 60 is continuous. I'm higher tilt I use that on some balls. Also depends on the ball you are thinking about.
I have a disturbed drilled 4 inch pin to pap, 60 Val with a p3 hole. Ball is rolly and continuous on heavy ths.
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I've had success with a Hammer Cold Blood at 50 x 3 x 30 which allowed me to add a p3 hole for more flare. Played well on High Street during summer league and it rolled great for me yesterday on Dead Man's Curve.
SVstar34, got a 900 Global Moxie drilled at 50* x 3 1/2" x 35* and it's a little too strong in the midlane and transitions a little too quick. Good if there is enough oil up front though. Looking more for something that hooks,set and then goes into a strong roll that I can use a little longer. Maybe through the whole set.
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The 35 means nothing on a symetrical. Depends in where it positions the cg with your pap to position a weight hole . 4 inches to pap is full flare. 60 is continuous. I'm higher tilt I use that on some balls. Also depends on the ball you are thinking about.
I have a disturbed drilled 4 inch pin to pap, 60 Val with a p3 hole. Ball is rolly and continuous on heavy ths.
I've educated myself on the dual angle layouts and have the tools to layout my own balls, but can you enlighten me on the cg postion in reference to symmetrical balls. I thought that you just draw an imaginary line through the cg to substitute the PSA.
P.S. I don't drill my own equipment but I found it helpful to understand which layouts work best for me instead of just going in to the pro shop and just getting them drilled with no input.
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What I was getting at is that in a symetrical ball the psa will be next to the thumb after drilling. So the drilling angle isn't a true drill angle like in an asymetrical ball. So really you are just positioning the cg to make statics correct. I always position mine if possible to allow for a low hole due to my tilt. I need the ball to flare and burn tilt
Looking at your post about the Moxie, looks like you are wanting a roller ball with a weaker cover than the moxie to keep it in play longer. Something like a mid range ball. I really like the venom shock with a bit of surface and also like the roto asylum which was a hybrid cover.
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What I was getting at is that in a symetrical ball the psa will be next to the thumb after drilling. So the drilling angle isn't a true drill angle like in an asymetrical ball. So really you are just positioning the cg to make statics correct. I always position mine if possible to allow for a low hole due to my tilt. I need the ball to flare and burn tilt
Looking at your post about the Moxie, looks like you are wanting a roller ball with a weaker cover than the moxie to keep it in play longer.
You are very correct in your assessment. I have a another older ball with similar core specs to the Moxie that I am going to have drilled and polish the cover to still give me some length. This cover comes box finish at 1000 grit the Moxie is at 4000 grit but super strong. The ball is the AMF Mega Recovery still a strong ball in terms of overall hook. I have one drilled and polished at 65* x 3 1/2" x 35* and the back end is just incredible.......the deep angle makes it 10 pin city when it hits the dry. I guess my high tilt doesn't help it any. So I'm doing a little experiment with the same ball so I can get a real comparison. I had played around with the high val angle but didn't want it so high that it puts the pin below my fingers. So from my experimental layouts I can't go above 60* on the val unless I go below 35* on the DA. Sorry I know there is no real drill angle but that's the only way I can understand it not being a professional and all. Anyhow my driller always verifies my layout before he punches them up to make sure it will give me the look I want.
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The 35 means nothing on a symetrical. Depends in where it positions the cg with your pap to position a weight hole . 4 inches to pap is full flare. 60 is continuous. I'm higher tilt I use that on some balls. Also depends on the ball you are thinking about.
I have a disturbed drilled 4 inch pin to pap, 60 Val with a p3 hole. Ball is rolly and continuous on heavy ths.
So are you saying that on a symmetrical; a 35 x 5 x 60 will roll the same as a 70 x 5 x 60 since the first number doesnt matter?
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According to Blueprint; on a symmetrical; you just substitute the cg for the MB when determining dual angle layouts.
http://blueprintbowling.com/Documents/Bowling%20Ball%20Track%20Flare%20Explained.pdf
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Yes because the psa will swing to the thumb hole. The difference will be where the weight hole is(which will effect the psa).The cg position itself means nothing, it's the corresponding weight hole that makes the difference. The drill angle is positioning the cg.
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Yes because the psa will swing to the thumb hole. The difference will be where the weight hole is(which will effect the psa).The cg position itself means nothing, it's the corresponding weight hole that makes the difference. The drill angle is positioning the cg.
Thanks, I understand PSA on a symmetrical now. But explain to me the effect of pin to pap drillings with lengths greater than 4" on a symmetrical and what type of look you get from them.
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Here is a drawing that tells all....Basically the further you are going from 4 inches the more you decrease flare and move the breakpoint down lane on a symetrical ball
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Here is a drawing that tells all....Basically the further you are going from 4 inches the more you decrease flare and move the breakpoint down lane on a symetrical ball
Yeah I've studied that. But what I want to know is what type of look will that give you on the lane? I know flare gives you the snap and aggressive hook. But does the longer pin given less flare smooth out the hook thus giving you more roll? Thanks for all your help. Also do you think it's important for a bowler to know the information I have discussed in this thread? I spoke with another pro shop owner and he said no, actually he was pretty p.o.ed about it. But my driller is fine with it makes it easier for him to understand what look I want out of my equipment. For me it has helped me tremendously understanding the dynamics of my game and help me score better since my style is unconventional and I never learned bowling the traditional way. I tried for years to bowl for like what everyone else looked like and it just didn't work for me. It took all this research for me recognize my strengths and develop an arsenal to cater to my style. Finding my pap, speed, tilt and rev rate and a piece of tape helped me leaps and bounds more than anyone could ever know. Gone are the days of getting a ball drilled and hoping it will work. At least now I can pick the right ball for any lane condition according to my style.
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I can tell you that I took 10 years off from bowling between 1997-2007, the ball technology changed so much during thst time it was incredible. I came back to bowling and really struggled on the transitions and with drier lanes. I couldnt figure it out and my driller just kept drilling balls the same way for me. I was a 220 average guys during college and in my early 20's, I come back and couldnt average 200 with the new "better" equipment. I started doing research because i felt like i was throwing the ball well just couldnt control things at times. Once I was knowledgable enough to understand and get my specs, especially tilt, I started requesting my own layouts and things got better, still not back to 220, I dont practice but 210 is pretty normal now. It helped my game, I have now found a new PSO that is much more knowledgable and has no problem having these conversations with me even if he disagrees with what I may want for a layout. The conversation always makes the choice better. Ball characteristics are also very different, being knowledgable about your game helps make those decisions easier. I also really learned about surface and how it effects me and my release....Im higher tilt and never use polish anymore....
Going with a longer pin to pap on a symetrical ball will give you a breakpoint further down lane, the val angle will effect the transition, faster or slower(snappier or smoother) Surface will also dictate length......The longer pin to pap, smoother surface and higher the val angle will create a snappier backend.....
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Ok got it. I have a ball spinner also so surface changes are not an issue. I drill it throw it and if it doesn't give me the look I want then I change surface. I switched pro shops for the very reason you discussed. My new driller is much more open to helping improve my game than being the alpha dog. I also took off from bowling from 2001 - 2012. The only difference is I was never a 200 plus avg bowler. My best was 190's but I was on my way up then family took president over bowling. The funny thing is now looking back on it I never had balls drilled to cater to my style. My friends would tell me to get the ball drilled to go long and maximum back end and that's how I got all my balls drilled. I catered my game around the drilling, now I am catering the drilling around my game!!!
Again Thanks a bunch I'm out..... 8)
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Good Luck, nice chatting...