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Author Topic: Crazy Layouts  (Read 8057 times)

n00dlejester

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Crazy Layouts
« on: August 18, 2009, 04:26:46 AM »
Hey layout dudes, as I've been trolling these boards I've heard of some crazy layouts I never heard of and I was wondering for some clarifications.  The one I remember distinctly is a "negative barbell" or something like that - I remember seeing the words "negative"  and "barbell" on this post (which I can't find), and it got me thinking about awesome layouts.  Please share all of yours!  I'm gonna try a fun layout come next ball.
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mw11x300

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Re: Crazy Layouts
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2009, 10:21:11 PM »
A few that I have dabbled with are as follows.  Keep in mind these are not layouts I would recommend to most people, but I have tried them albeit some were not very successful.

Barbell- I have seen it done two different ways, but either way generally works best with a lightbulb shaped weightblock.  The first way is by putting the pin on the bowtie of the track, and the cg/mb at 0 degrees to the PAP.  The second way puts the pin in the palm similar to the Rico layout with the cg/mb at 0 degrees to the PAP.  Either of these tend to need a sizable weighthole on the PAP.  I have tried the pin in the palm version on a lightning storm with excellent results.  It is a super smooth reaction with no flip.

180* layout- This was made popular by Danny Wiseman several years ago in a BTM article by Denny Torgeson.  Basically the pin is 4 to 5 inches from the axis point under the fingers and the mb is at 180 degrees.  This puts the mb past the track and the cg placement tends to provoke negative side weight which will require a hole on the negative side of the ball.  Be very careful with the hole.  I drilled this for myself and put the weight hole in a bad spot.  The ball rolled well, but thumped on every revolution.  lol

Inverted Full Roller- Not sure this is the technical name for the layout, but that's what I call it.  This places the pin 4 1/2 from the PAP 1 1/2" below midline in the thumb positive quadrant.  The cg will be about a half inch right of grip center and the mb ends up near the bowtie of the track.  This is one rolly SOB that tames wet/dry like nothing I've ever seen.  Drilled this for myself on a Visionary DC Tour Warlock and shot 850 out of the box.  Sorry for the figjam, but 850 with a flaming pink ball deserves a little figjam.

n00dlejester

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Re: Crazy Layouts
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 11:22:17 PM »
lol, figjam away.  High scores are always something to be proud of.

Thanks for sharing these layouts also, I plan on toying with the next ball I get, whatever it may be.  I just spoke with one of the local pro-shop operators near me and he had a similar inverted full-roller drilling, and he loved it too.  I'm wondering if that would be a good layout to put on a ball to combat shorter/more friction patterns/lanes.
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Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.
"This is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."

JessN16

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Re: Crazy Layouts
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 05:30:24 AM »
The four I've tried:

1) Tommy Jones layout -- pin high above the fingers, about 1 inch buffer to the VAL, MB above the thumb. Clears heads nicely, very late and strong ball motion with an incredible amount of stored energy. Sort of the ultimate skid/snap layout, IMO. Some people have problems controlling this one but I haven't had an issue with it. Adjust surface as needed to tame reaction.

2) 315 layout -- Pin under middle, CG under ring and MB on or beyond the VAL several inches above the ring. Super-smooth reaction off the dry, but doesn't hit weak. Ultimate control drill. Doesn't offer a ton of recovery, though, so if you tend to miss out, this isn't your drill. Great for playing up the track when the lanes are a little dry.

3) Girard layout -- Pin about 2 inches below the thumb, in the track or just inside it. CG in grip center. Recommend a weak MB ball or a symmetric for this because I can see a strong MB placement above the fingers being a problem. Use it when you want to go more direct through the heads but need a bigger move than the 315. Also, keep in mind that the ball will be flaring opposite of how it usually flares, so it changes the ball motion through the pindeck. In my experience, it helps carry on high hits but may cost you a little on light hits. Not for people who like to swing it unless they have mega-hand (and in that case, other patterns would probably be more useful).

4) There isn't a name for this one, and I guess I may have accidentally invented it (I'll gladly back off that claim if I ever meet someone who has done this before): Pin on the VAL 4 inches above the PAP, CG somewhere in the grip area, MB in the track on the grip midline (in other words, at 3 o'clock for right-handers, or 9 o'clock for left-handers). You need a long-pin ball to pull this off or the CG is going to end up above the fingers and probably cause you issues with legal statics. I have it on a 900Global Break S-75 (pic: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/ConStar8788/Bowling%20balls/dscn0769.jpg). Ball motion this one produces is kind of interesting: Clears the heads easily, then makes a fairly decisive change of motion and then lays off, but doesn't completely roll out. Sort of skid-hook-arc motion. Great pin action on light mixers. Adjust surface as needed to control the tendency to roll out. I jumped 11 pins in one league and 21 in another using primarily this ball. And in the pic, that's not a weight hole, it's a pinky finger hole.

Jess

Edited on 8/22/2009 5:36 AM

i_throw_strikes

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Re: Crazy Layouts
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2009, 06:06:00 AM »
one of my fast's have a negative layout i placed pin under middle finger and the cg in my track with a x hole on my negative axis hole. ive also tried a inverted rico with the cg by the fingers not the thumb and it rolled ok. the most f'd up roll i ever got was a short pin and top x out attitnde shift placed pin and cg since was a 0" on my pap with a whole threw both and drilled a original shift x out with the same specs 2" past my val with a x hole both balls rolled really strange but they were just try new stuff balls

mw11x300

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Re: Crazy Layouts
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2009, 12:05:24 PM »
I thought of a couple more that might interest you.  

Pin axis- puts the pin on your PAP and CG/MB pointed towards grip center.  Basically starts hooking at your feet and smooths out jumpy backends.  For me it works best on lower end pearl balls for shorter patterns.

1x1- This is kind of an old school layout that was used quite a bit back when reactive resin first became popular.  It is what it says, Pin and CG are both  1" from your axis with a weight hole one inch past the axis.  This is a pretty even reacting layout.  For me it tends to make a big banana shaped reaction.

Modified Rico- After hearing about the famed Rico layout for several years on here and having limited success with it, I made a modification.  Rather than putting the pin in the palm, I locate the pin 3 3/8" from my axis in the leverage position on my midline.  The cg or mb remains at the 45 degrees like the Rico layout and the x hole remains 6 3/4 from the pin through the cg.  Basically it is the same layout with a stronger pin position.  I didn't care for the standard Rico layout because it was a little lazy for my taste.  I liked the reaction shape, I just felt that there wasn't enought reaction so I did the layout with a stronger pin and it fits my eye very well.

FrontTwelv

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Re: Crazy Layouts
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2009, 08:12:53 AM »
On the 'modified' rico, where are you putting the cg?  45* from pin & then weight hole through cg 6 3/4"  OR CG 45* from grip center & then weight hole from there?

the reason i ask is the weight hole needs to stay exactly 6 3/4" from the pin to create the largest asymmetry, and the reason the pin-cg-WH position is where it's at is to get the flair off the finger holes.
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Drew Jordan
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Edited on 8/23/2009 8:14 AM

mw11x300

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Re: Crazy Layouts
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2009, 12:25:05 PM »
Very true, the cg mb line is 45 degrees from the axis point.  It works out in the dual angle method something like 45x3 3/8x95.  Then the x hole is 6 3/4 from the pin on a line through the cg.

bighook69

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Re: Crazy Layouts
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2009, 12:34:07 PM »
quote:
I thought of a couple more that might interest you.  

Pin axis- puts the pin on your PAP and CG/MB pointed towards grip center.  Basically starts hooking at your feet and smooths out jumpy backends.  For me it works best on lower end pearl balls for shorter patterns.



Watch out on this one though, you need a ball that is considered long and strong... otherwise you are going to see 10 pins left and right, I have drilled a few balls this way and have never really seen great pin carry...

cpo_bee

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Re: Crazy Layouts
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2009, 10:35:40 AM »
I have a pin on PAP AMF Whiplash Pearl, AWESOME ball whenever an there's a lot of friction.  Very condition specific, needs friction, skates with no recovery on any amount of oil.

n00dlejester

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Re: Crazy Layouts
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 01:52:45 AM »
Thanks for the info and experiences with layouts everyone.  I appreciate it greatly, and while I'm not getting a new ball anytime soon, I will share what I do and what happens the next ball I get.  I'm still trying to keep my new Virtual Gravity on the right side of the pocket, lol
--------------------
Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.
"This is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."