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Author Topic: Negative  (Read 5873 times)

alloutsmith3

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Negative
« on: September 08, 2011, 11:42:58 PM »
 I'm looking for some input on negative layouts. If you have used them what did or didn't you like about it? Did you use it on a weaker or stronger ball? Let me know what you think.

Jason Smith



 

Cobalt Bomb

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Re: Negative
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2011, 07:54:13 AM »
What are your axis coordinates?

 

By "negative layouts" I assume you mean with the pin on the track side of the grip midline, correct?



alloutsmith3

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Re: Negative
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2011, 08:13:14 AM »
PAP is 4.75" over and 0.5" up. You are correct with what I'm asking about.


Jason Smith



dougb

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Re: Negative
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2011, 08:15:53 AM »
I had a Storm Rapid Fire with a negative pin layout and loved it.  The cg was in grip center and the pin was above the middle finger.
 
The combination of the weak drill and the strong core/cover had the ball revving up very strong but not flaring too much.  This was a great control piece on tight lanes that didn't give me too much room for error or where over/under reactions were a problem.  Just put it down on the third arrow and watch it hit the pocket every time.
 
Heck, now you have me wanting to do another ball like this! I sold it when I moved up to 15. 
 
 

Cobalt Bomb

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Re: Negative
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2011, 08:40:14 AM »
I don't normally use the term "negative" when referring  to a layout. I tend to think of them in terms of pin distance from the axis, pin distance from the val (vertical axis line) and MB distance from axis (assumed mb on symmetric core balls), or Mo Pinel's degree system.

 

With that being said, I do not use any ball with the pin closer than 5" to my axis. I am rev dominant. With my coordinates of 5 1/8x0, some of my layouts end up with the pin on the track side of the midline. With a symmetric core, the longer pin distance cuts the flare and gives me length, on asyms length with flare and the hook shape dictated by mb placement. I use pin distances up to 6 1/4" from the axis. At that distance on symmetric I get length and control. Any further than 6 1/4" away and you risk reverse flaring on an errant shot. As to which ball to choose, it depends on exactly what I am trying to accomplish. I have a Roto Grip Riot drilled 50x6"x70 (pin under and just left of mf) which gives me alot of length and control, and a 2Furious 60x6"x55 (pin in mf) which gives me a conservative ball to use on patterns on the longer side. I also have an Anarchy 6" pin to pap, 3" pin to val 3.5" mb to axis, (pin over mf) which gives me a strong skid/flip.

Hope this helps you

 

 



kidlost2000

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Re: Negative
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2011, 09:05:45 AM »
It is all relative to your PAP. Just because it is left of your center grip line doesn't  mean much, especially something negative. That is an old term for something people didn't understand at the time. My PAP is 5.5" straight acrosss and I drill a lot of stuff with the pin 5-5.5" from my PAP. For you it would be left of your center grip line but the reaction will be very similar. If you watch most of the Brunswick vids on their website they have the majority of the bowling balls drilled with 5 to 5.5" pins and that will give you a great idea how most of them will react.
 
Now when you get to 6 3/4" or beyond from your PAP you may have something. 


"1 of 1." 
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

MK

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Re: Negative
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2011, 09:27:51 AM »
I agree with Cobalt.    Putting a pin on the track should reduce flare and increase stability/control.   Check out the "Pin close to track" section on the following link http://www.bowlingfans.com/jeff/ballreactionbasics.html

 

I recently drilled a Rotogrip Theory with a pin above bidge in the gripline and MB 2 inches strong (aka Pete Weber layout I beleive) which gives me the best control for any asymmetric ball that I own.   Like Cobalt mentioned, this works out to a 3 1/2 pin to PAP which is giving me some of the most consistent scores I have been getting in my game. 

 

As a thought, have you given thought to a Rico layout as well given you are talking about a pin at or near the grip line.   I have not drilled a ball up with a Rico layout but I am intrigued by what I read about it.

 

Best,

MK

 

alloutsmith3

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Re: Negative
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2011, 06:15:07 PM »
 Thanks for the info guys. I've never laid anything out with the pin far enough from my axis to get it on the left side of my midline. The furthest I've put the pin had it directly above my bridge. I think I'll try the new Hammer Epidemic with the pin around 10 or 11 o'clock from my middle finger.

Jason Smith



JohnP

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Re: Negative
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2011, 01:37:54 AM »
Pin location in relation to the grip means nothing, pin location in relation to the PAP means everything.  --  JohnP