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Author Topic: Negative Pin Label?  (Read 8108 times)

Shermster

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Negative Pin Label?
« on: March 24, 2010, 08:19:11 AM »
I was watching this video of the Dynamo X2 and Tony's drill type states 'negative pin label'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qANgM1Oz6yU

What's the benefit of a negative layout? His ball reaction seems to be pretty nice.
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TheFreeAgent

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 04:21:45 PM »
For me negative layouts for me. Get into a roll very early and are extremely smooth and predictable.
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Ryan "Junk" Pitman
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Indianapolis IN.

Shermster

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 04:25:43 PM »
How about overall hook? Enough to turn the corner when you make a move inside?
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TheFreeAgent

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 04:29:01 PM »
depends on the ball I had drilled my bounty hunter similar to the X2 from the video but mine had a longer pin and i couldn't keep it on the lane
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Ryan "Junk" Pitman
Ebonite amateur staff
Indianapolis IN.

T C 300

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 04:45:42 PM »
if you rev the ball pretty good, you should have one of these negative pins in your bag!!
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dougb

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 05:07:23 PM »
I had a pin over middle finger cg in palm negative pin layout on a Storm Rapid Fire.  That ball revved so hard but didn't cover too many boards.  It was great for playing a down-and-in shot and on tricky lane conditions.

Now I have two balls pin over bridge with the cg kicked out.  Great length and very strong backend.  I'm not sure if these qualify as negative pins, but it's a winner layout for me.
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kidlost2000

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 05:15:01 PM »
My pap is 5.5" straight across and putting the pin under the left finger gives good length with a very strong backend snap that doesn't die.

I don't use it much because on some balls it hooks way too much. The Ebonite Puma back in the day was one that was scary how much the ball snapped on the backend and never stopped hooking.

My other more recent was an Alter Ego that it was perfect on. Much more controllable with a very strong back end reaction.
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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

JohnP

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 09:32:04 PM »
Q:  What is a negative pin layout?

A"  There is no such thing, only various pin to PAP distances.  --  JohnP
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BradleyHay

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2010, 09:53:27 PM »
What do you mean Negative pin?

That pin is 5 1/2" from his PaP.. If I threw it that Pin would be about 6 1/4" from my PaP...
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batbowler

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2010, 10:17:10 PM »
They think they're creating something new and trying to keep up with "rico" type designated drillings. Pin placement below fingers is usually around 70deg val to pap degree layouts. Tony's layout is approximately a 45deg x 5-1/2" x 70deg if you use the dual angle layout!
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JustRico

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2010, 10:33:19 PM »
I laid out 2 balls for a young regional player today....both pins were 5" from his PAP....one under his middle and the other above it.....the ball driller took one look and said....why'd you put the pin over there and those will never work.....and walked out...
Yet the kid had a leverage pin with a hole down (rev rate over 350) that FLARED ALL OVER THE PLACE....or as I told him...overflaring...he had no clue. That ball should a ton! Uhm NO.....
Too many ball drillers do not understand pin to PAP....when laying out a ball.
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batbowler

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2010, 11:53:21 PM »
Exactly JustRico! I drilled my WildCard with the pin under my middle finger and everybody ask me why I drilled it for a left handed bowler when I'm right handed! I'm a low track player and for me it starts to read the midlane sooner and doesn't read the breakpoint as hard, a strong arc movement! Great info on here, you just have to read it from the correct posters! Thanks Rico for your input on here!
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"Train a child up in the way they should go and when they are old they will "Get MOTIVated, be a MoRich Lane Master with a Big B and not turn from it.
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Originator of the -35deg x 25 leverage drilling!
http://www.motivbowling.com/products/2/
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Bruce Campbell
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JustRico

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 07:55:55 AM »
Bruce
I remember MANY years ago when I started using left lateral pitch in my thumb and was told A. I couldn't 'cause I was right handed and B. it wouldn't work....REALLY?
And maybe 6-7 years ago I fit a bowler, drilled him a bowling ball and I gave him a little left lateral. He went home and his ball driller looked at it and told him I screwed up his bowling ball 'cause I drilled the thumbhole for a lefthander.....gotta love Bill Taylor.
Anyways, diversity is what makes the world go round...
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2010, 08:02:25 AM »
I also have no clue what a negative pin SHOULD be? A pin more than 6.25" from PAP? For backwards flare?
The ball in the video has a normal layout, a high tracker with a 5.5 pin to PAP under the fingers. So what?

Sound someone incompetent put this together, or wants to impress the incompetent audience - or both?
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JustRico

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Re: Negative Pin Label?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 08:21:07 AM »
Dizzy
You are correct....whatever the distance from the PAP to cause inverted flaring or back ward flaring, would be a negative pin. And that is not always 6 3/4" from the PAP. It is whatever point the pin from the PAP causes the track to stop flaring one way and invert. Could be 6", 6 1/4", etc.
I have laid out balls with pins from the NAP...full rollers as well as the 'boomer' layout.
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