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Author Topic: Negative pin layout?`  (Read 10278 times)

dougb

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Negative pin layout?`
« on: June 10, 2009, 05:08:23 PM »
Can someone explain what that means?

Thanks
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J_Mac

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2009, 01:16:07 AM »
Pin left of the bridge for a righty...  Pin to PAP distances will vary, but usually this is putting the pin fairly close to the track for most bowlers.
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dougb

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2009, 01:19:01 AM »
That makes sense.  Looking at a used ball with a negative pin above middle finger.  Seems like it would give the ball a lot of length and very little movement on the backend.

As a medium revs stroker, I've been thinking about drilling a ball to allow for a more forward release so I can play down-and-in when the lanes are tricky (like a reverse block).  BTM this month talks about it... would this layout work for what I want?

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lsf_21

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2009, 01:54:11 AM »
negative drills give me the best look of any drill pattern, it smoothens out the ball reaction and is very easy to read for me. I got plenty of hand and negative drills are so much more predictable
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Centers

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2009, 05:19:46 AM »
Take a page out of Sean Rash's book.  Most of his equipment is drilled that way.  Half of my stuff is drilled that way.
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Strider

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2009, 05:53:51 AM »
quote:
Take a page out of Sean Rash's book.  Most of his equipment is drilled that way.  Half of my stuff is drilled that way.
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Don't forget that Rash has 500+ rpm.  Unless you have a low PAP, a very weak pin position will reduce the ball's over all reaction.  I have one or two drilled like that.  For me it makes the ball's reaction extremely smooth.
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Sikfish

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2009, 07:21:47 AM »
I too also have a few pills drilled this way. My belief is that this puts the core in a more stable position (ie. end over end roll). But, I have always wondered does this make the statics wts. more important being that this layout smoothes out the reaction, sorta of urethane like for me.

Now, another layout that is very smooth and predictable is, pin under ring and cg in the negative thumb, this brings the flare rings closer together and gives me a more even move off the spot. Just my thoughts.

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Danes07

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2009, 07:23:32 AM »
I've heard that moving the pin towards the negative side and the CG near the grip center is a drilling that will help to raise a persons track.

I track kinda low and it seems like whatever I do my release or hand position, nothing changes it.  I'd heard that these kind of drillings with raise the track...thoughts I'd see if any of you guys knew anything about it.
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JohnP

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2009, 10:25:15 AM »
"Negative pin" is bad terminology.  The pin to PAP distance is what's important.  For a low tracker, say 3 1/2" over X 1" up, layouts with pin to PAP over about 4" are going to end up on the "negative" side of the bridge, but will still be strong FOR THAT BOWLER.  On the other hand, for a high tracker, say 5 3/4" over, on the midline, the same pin position would indeed be very weak FOR THAT BOWLER.  Forget "negative pin", talk pin to PAP.  --  JohnP
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Mike Austin

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2009, 10:40:23 AM »
quote:
"Negative pin" is bad terminology.  The pin to PAP distance is what's important.  For a low tracker, say 3 1/2" over X 1" up, layouts with pin to PAP over about 4" are going to end up on the "negative" side of the bridge, but will still be strong FOR THAT BOWLER.  On the other hand, for a high tracker, say 5 3/4" over, on the midline, the same pin position would indeed be very weak FOR THAT BOWLER.  Forget "negative pin", talk pin to PAP.  --  JohnP


Thanks JohnP, perfect!
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Xcessive_Evil

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2009, 05:02:12 PM »
quote:
"Negative pin" is bad terminology.  The pin to PAP distance is what's important.  For a low tracker, say 3 1/2" over X 1" up, layouts with pin to PAP over about 4" are going to end up on the "negative" side of the bridge, but will still be strong FOR THAT BOWLER.  On the other hand, for a high tracker, say 5 3/4" over, on the midline, the same pin position would indeed be very weak FOR THAT BOWLER.  Forget "negative pin", talk pin to PAP.  --  JohnP


Oh so very true.
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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2009, 05:09:06 PM »
quote:
"Negative pin" is bad terminology.  The pin to PAP distance is what's important.  For a low tracker, say 3 1/2" over X 1" up, layouts with pin to PAP over about 4" are going to end up on the "negative" side of the bridge, but will still be strong FOR THAT BOWLER.  On the other hand, for a high tracker, say 5 3/4" over, on the midline, the same pin position would indeed be very weak FOR THAT BOWLER.  Forget "negative pin", talk pin to PAP.  --  JohnP

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+3 here.
Nice explanation, John. What's "negative" for one bowler can be strong for another.


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zion

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2009, 06:20:34 PM »
If your high track player and clip the finger and thumb early. Would a negative pin position hurt you?
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Jay

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2009, 07:15:09 PM »
zion touched on what I'd be worried about.  Pins above or below the middle finger for me are about 5 1/2" from my PAP I believe.  I'd be worried about clipping the middle finger with the pin below it though, I don't think my safe zone goes that low.  In the middle finger is most likely safe though.
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JohnP

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Re: Negative pin layout?`
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2009, 10:31:56 PM »
quote:
If your high track player and clip the finger and thumb early. Would a negative pin position hurt you?


What would the pin to PAP distance be?  I repeat, "negative pin" is meaningless and misleading.  --  JohnP
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