BallReviews

General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: dougb on June 10, 2009, 05:08:23 PM

Title: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: dougb on June 10, 2009, 05:08:23 PM
Can someone explain what that means?

Thanks
Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: J_Mac on June 11, 2009, 01:16:07 AM
Pin left of the bridge for a righty...  Pin to PAP distances will vary, but usually this is putting the pin fairly close to the track for most bowlers.
Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: dougb on June 11, 2009, 01:19:01 AM
That makes sense.  Looking at a used ball with a negative pin above middle finger.  Seems like it would give the ball a lot of length and very little movement on the backend.

As a medium revs stroker, I've been thinking about drilling a ball to allow for a more forward release so I can play down-and-in when the lanes are tricky (like a reverse block).  BTM this month talks about it... would this layout work for what I want?

Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: lsf_21 on June 11, 2009, 01:54:11 AM
negative drills give me the best look of any drill pattern, it smoothens out the ball reaction and is very easy to read for me. I got plenty of hand and negative drills are so much more predictable
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Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: Centers on June 11, 2009, 05:19:46 AM
Take a page out of Sean Rash's book.  Most of his equipment is drilled that way.  Half of my stuff is drilled that way.
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Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: Strider on June 11, 2009, 05:53:51 AM
quote:
Take a page out of Sean Rash's book.  Most of his equipment is drilled that way.  Half of my stuff is drilled that way.
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Don't be afraid of failing, be affraid of not trying!

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=307676516&albumId=952697


Don't forget that Rash has 500+ rpm.  Unless you have a low PAP, a very weak pin position will reduce the ball's over all reaction.  I have one or two drilled like that.  For me it makes the ball's reaction extremely smooth.
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Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: Sikfish on June 11, 2009, 07:21:47 AM
I too also have a few pills drilled this way. My belief is that this puts the core in a more stable position (ie. end over end roll). But, I have always wondered does this make the statics wts. more important being that this layout smoothes out the reaction, sorta of urethane like for me.

Now, another layout that is very smooth and predictable is, pin under ring and cg in the negative thumb, this brings the flare rings closer together and gives me a more even move off the spot. Just my thoughts.

Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: Danes07 on June 11, 2009, 07:23:32 AM
I've heard that moving the pin towards the negative side and the CG near the grip center is a drilling that will help to raise a persons track.

I track kinda low and it seems like whatever I do my release or hand position, nothing changes it.  I'd heard that these kind of drillings with raise the track...thoughts I'd see if any of you guys knew anything about it.
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Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: JohnP on June 11, 2009, 10:25:15 AM
"Negative pin" is bad terminology.  The pin to PAP distance is what's important.  For a low tracker, say 3 1/2" over X 1" up, layouts with pin to PAP over about 4" are going to end up on the "negative" side of the bridge, but will still be strong FOR THAT BOWLER.  On the other hand, for a high tracker, say 5 3/4" over, on the midline, the same pin position would indeed be very weak FOR THAT BOWLER.  Forget "negative pin", talk pin to PAP.  --  JohnP
Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: Mike Austin on June 11, 2009, 10:40:23 AM
quote:
"Negative pin" is bad terminology.  The pin to PAP distance is what's important.  For a low tracker, say 3 1/2" over X 1" up, layouts with pin to PAP over about 4" are going to end up on the "negative" side of the bridge, but will still be strong FOR THAT BOWLER.  On the other hand, for a high tracker, say 5 3/4" over, on the midline, the same pin position would indeed be very weak FOR THAT BOWLER.  Forget "negative pin", talk pin to PAP.  --  JohnP


Thanks JohnP, perfect!
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Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on June 11, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
quote:
"Negative pin" is bad terminology.  The pin to PAP distance is what's important.  For a low tracker, say 3 1/2" over X 1" up, layouts with pin to PAP over about 4" are going to end up on the "negative" side of the bridge, but will still be strong FOR THAT BOWLER.  On the other hand, for a high tracker, say 5 3/4" over, on the midline, the same pin position would indeed be very weak FOR THAT BOWLER.  Forget "negative pin", talk pin to PAP.  --  JohnP


Oh so very true.
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Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: on June 11, 2009, 05:09:06 PM
quote:
"Negative pin" is bad terminology.  The pin to PAP distance is what's important.  For a low tracker, say 3 1/2" over X 1" up, layouts with pin to PAP over about 4" are going to end up on the "negative" side of the bridge, but will still be strong FOR THAT BOWLER.  On the other hand, for a high tracker, say 5 3/4" over, on the midline, the same pin position would indeed be very weak FOR THAT BOWLER.  Forget "negative pin", talk pin to PAP.  --  JohnP

***********************************

+3 here.
Nice explanation, John. What's "negative" for one bowler can be strong for another.


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The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: zion on June 11, 2009, 06:20:34 PM
If your high track player and clip the finger and thumb early. Would a negative pin position hurt you?
Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: Jay on June 11, 2009, 07:15:09 PM
zion touched on what I'd be worried about.  Pins above or below the middle finger for me are about 5 1/2" from my PAP I believe.  I'd be worried about clipping the middle finger with the pin below it though, I don't think my safe zone goes that low.  In the middle finger is most likely safe though.
Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: JohnP on June 12, 2009, 10:31:56 PM
quote:
If your high track player and clip the finger and thumb early. Would a negative pin position hurt you?


What would the pin to PAP distance be?  I repeat, "negative pin" is meaningless and misleading.  --  JohnP
Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: tc300 on June 12, 2009, 11:09:46 PM
i have a top fuel drilled pin above, to the right of the middle finger with the cg below fingers on grip line... this ball worked on EVERY house shot. just didnt carry well at some tho
Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: Xfest on June 13, 2009, 12:32:11 AM
Having a PAP of 6 1/8 over by 1/2 inch up, this layout gives me a "negative" drill layout.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/9747/48227336.jpg

Pin above bridge is just at about 6 inches pin to PAP. This layout is 6 1/2 inches from PAP which gives me the FARTHEST pin to PAP ratio in my bag. I look for this ball to give me length and a good read of lanes when they are transitioning.
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Edited on 6/13/2009 0:34 AM
Title: Re: Negative pin layout?`
Post by: Bluff on June 18, 2009, 10:55:33 PM
Is like Drill a left hand for a right handed bowler
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