BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: FrontTwelv on February 05, 2009, 02:18:37 AM
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i realize offsetting thumb just changes pitches. yeh yeh, but i can't seem to get that great feel by just moving pitches around lining the thumb up with the bridge. BUT, when I offset the thumb 1/4 inch left (right hander) i tend to hang up unless i make the thumb larger. should i adj my pitch a full 1/4" left?
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH
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The simple way to do an offset thumb is to have to t-lines. One For the thumb and one for the fingers.Drill pitches for thumb off thumb line and finger off t-line. most offset thumbs need to be over 1/2inch to 1 1/8 in over. Remember to take approximately 1/8 off your current thumb pitch becasue the offset will make it it come off quicker.
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Roger Carroll
Pinnacle Pro Shop
Clarksville, TN
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Drawing didnt work
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Roger Carroll
Pinnacle Pro Shop
Clarksville, TN
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I use off set, no matter the argument that's there's no such thing. I found, for me, 1/8 left was the smoothest, for my thumb. I don't come out to fast, don't hang up ( unless my thumb swells a lot) but that's not the pitch problem, that's my coffee problem.
It took me 4 balls to find the "right feel" for my pitch. I used an old ball, 1 3/8 thumb slug so I could adjust pitches without plugging, just a new slug.
It takes trial and error to get the 'prefect' feel for you.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
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The original offset thumb was designed by Bob Strickland. Here is the basic measurenebt rules from his book. You must have 3 center lines. The center line of your grip is conventional. The center line of your thumb is through he center line of your index finger with the left edge of the the thumb hole on the conventional center line. The center line of your ring finger is through the center line of your thumb. The Index finger is drilled conventional. His theory is this will put the center of the ball in line with the center of your hand and arm. He does not state any differnce in pitches is necessary.
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Strikeking
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My thumbhole is offset. If you look at the drilling head on, my thumbhole is directly below my middle finger hole.
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My span is Middle finger 4 3/8 cut-to-cut, Ring finger 4 1/2 cut-to-cut, thumb pitch is 3/8 reverse and 1/4 negative (away)
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Edited on 2/11/2009 7:20 PM
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Juggernaut:
The only thing I would double check is: I'll bet a dollar to a dough-nut that your ring finger is too long. I find this a common mistake because most drillers do not actaully measure the span of the ring finger. They just add on to the span of the index finger. Put your thumb into the ball and lay your fingers on top of the ball and see if the joints of both fingers are the same length past the cut of the finger holes. If they are not, you are putting more strain on one finger than the other.
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Strikeking
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Any idea where where you can get this book by Bob Strickland??
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quote:
Juggernaut:
The only thing I would double check is: I'll bet a dollar to a dough-nut that your ring finger is too long. I find this a common mistake because most drillers do not actaully measure the span of the ring finger. They just add on to the span of the index finger. Put your thumb into the ball and lay your fingers on top of the ball and see if the joints of both fingers are the same length past the cut of the finger holes. If they are not, you are putting more strain on one finger than the other.
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Strikeking
Nope, exactly the same. I am one of those guys who uses an extended ring finger. My ring finger span has always been 1/8 inch longer than my middle finger span, regardless of whether the thumb was offset or not.
My OLD drillings looked like this:
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When I offset the thumbhole, it brought the ring finger down, almost parallel to the middle finger.
My drillers have often told me I have an odd grip, but it measures out correctly and doesn't hurt any tendons or ligaments, so I assume it is correct.
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
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My copy disappeared from the shop and I never found another one. If anyone knows where to find one please post it.
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Strikeking
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http://brunsnick.com/offset.jpg
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. BrunsNick
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-09
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.AskTheBowler.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
Friends don't let friends drink the Kool-Aid!
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Juggernaut... your old and new ways are exactly the same the "drawings" are just tilted differently. Maybe your pitches are different but that's it.
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quote:
Juggernaut... your old and new ways are exactly the same the "drawings" are just tilted differently. Maybe your pitches are different but that's it.
I've heard that before, but you aren't going to convince me of it. Not going to argue about it ( been down that road ), but I know this, one technique works much better for me than the other one.
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
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Okay but what about these? It's probably a mental thing.
Are all 3 of these drillings different?
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spanwr4.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=span2kb1.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=span3hf7.jpg
Edited on 2/11/2009 10:16 PM
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It looks like the MF span on each is the same but the RF span increases from the first to the second to the third pictures. -- JohnP
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quote:
It looks like the MF span on each is the same but the RF span increases from the first to the second to the third pictures. -- JohnP
I probably should have just answered the question in my post but...
The first is normal the last two are exactly the same I just rotated the third so it looks "offset". In actuality lengthening the ring finger just gives the thumb the appearance of being offset to the left when the fingers are inline.
Edited on 2/11/2009 10:44 PM
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quote:
quote:
It looks like the MF span on each is the same but the RF span increases from the first to the second to the third pictures. -- JohnP
I probably should have just answered the question in my post but...
The first is normal the last two are exactly the same I just rotated the third so it looks "offset". In actuality lengthening the ring finger just gives the thumb the appearance of being offset to the left when the fingers are inline.
Edited on 2/11/2009 10:44 PM
All I know is, with just the longer ring finger span, my thumb wouldn't clear the hole well, no matter what pitch was in it. Also my thumb has mild arthritis in it and was sore the day after bowling from the stress of the angle it was in in the ball.
Now, with what is called an "offset" thumbhole, all the spans are exactly the same as before, yet my thumb has no problem clearing the hole and is hardly ever sore the next day. And I'm not talking sore from friction, I'm talking about stiffness in the joint itself.
My drilling looks more like the third picture (not quite THAT much offset), while my old drilling looked more like the second. Don't really know exactly what the geometrical differences are, but my thumb can definitely tell the difference.
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
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quote:
quote:
quote:
It looks like the MF span on each is the same but the RF span increases from the first to the second to the third pictures. -- JohnP
I probably should have just answered the question in my post but...
The first is normal the last two are exactly the same I just rotated the third so it looks "offset". In actuality lengthening the ring finger just gives the thumb the appearance of being offset to the left when the fingers are inline.
Edited on 2/11/2009 10:44 PM
All I know is, with just the longer ring finger span, my thumb wouldn't clear the hole well, no matter what pitch was in it. Also my thumb has mild arthritis in it and was sore the day after bowling from the stress of the angle it was in in the ball.
Now, with what is called an "offset" thumbhole, all the spans are exactly the same as before, yet my thumb has no problem clearing the hole and is hardly ever sore the next day. And I'm not talking sore from friction, I'm talking about stiffness in the joint itself.
My drilling looks more like the third picture (not quite THAT much offset), while my old drilling looked more like the second. Don't really know exactly what the geometrical differences are, but my thumb can definitely tell the difference.
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Not sure... maybe the position you put the grips and tape in? Measurements and drill pattern are exactly the same so it really shouldn't be that. Might even be the pitches are different when you drill the other way because instead of setting pitches with the thumb appearing in the center of the fingers you're doing it with the thumb under the middle finger. Anyway obviously something is being done different when you do it the way that feels best.
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Not sure... maybe the position you put the grips and tape in? Measurements and drill pattern are exactly the same so it really shouldn't be that. Might even be the pitches are different when you drill the other way because instead of setting pitches with the thumb appearing in the center of the fingers you're doing it with the thumb under the middle finger. Anyway obviously something is being done different when you do it the way that feels best.
Believe me, I was a nerd in school, and very good at plane geometry, so I was confused by this as well. While the pure measurements are the same, there seems to be something inherently different about the gripping angles and insertion angles of my thumb. That is also why I can't begin to tell you WHY it works, only that it does. It should be just the same thing achieved through different means, but it doesn't feel that way to my hand.
It probably has something to do with geometry on different planes simultaneously. Being as the ball is a spherical object may have something to do with it. Simply moving the hole placement on a round object would inherently change the holes pitch angle in relation to the center of the ball and may make more difference than we realize
It could be the grip angle, it could be the thumbs insertion point, heck, it could be anything I guess. Whatever it is, it works for me.
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Edited on 2/11/2009 11:31 PM
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I like Brunsnick's post:http://brunsnick.com/offset.jpg, cuz that's what I always tell everybody! The span is still the same and it's not really an offset thumb, just gives the appearance of being offset! Just my $02, Bruce
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"Train a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will "BOWL UP A STORM AND BE KING OF THEM ALL" and not turn from it."
Roto Grip - Storm : What else do you need?
Bruce Campbell
www.rotogrip.com
www.rotogear.com
Edited on 2/11/2009 11:42 PM
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FYI
Inprevious posts: "index" should be "middle" I need a proof reader. Sorry for the dumb mistake.
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Strikeking
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quote:
The first is normal the last two are exactly the same I just rotated the third so it looks "offset". In actuality lengthening the ring finger just gives the thumb the appearance of being offset to the left when the fingers are inline.
No, in the first drawing the two spans are the same. In the subsequent drawings the RF span is increasingly longer than the MF span. If you don't believe this, measure the distances on your screen. -- JohnP
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quote:
I like Brunsnick's post:http://brunsnick.com/offset.jpg, cuz that's what I always tell everybody! The span is still the same and it's not really an offset thumb, just gives the appearance of being offset! Just my $02, Bruce
The span may be the same, but there is a difference in the way your hand sits in and on the ball.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"
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Could it be that the difference is in the way that the pitches ar drilled? Each hole is drilled on a different C/L in Bob Strickland's method.
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Strikeking
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I do agree in that an offset is a misnomer, but what it accomplishes is what I argue. Yes you can turn the grips in a T-Grip and essentially accomplish the offset, but what you aren't getting by that is the difference in the angle that your fingers and thumb go in the ball. This is where I believe the "offset" is important, by adjusting the angles of how your fingers go in the ball you adjust how your hand lays on the ball. I do agree that either method can get you to the same result but what i've got with an offset is tough to replicate with a t-grip because I don't use finger inserts and the angles of the holes become different in a T-Grip fit versus an offset grip.
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http://www.absolutebowling.com
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magicmike -- By carefully measuring and reproducing the pitches, spans, and sizes of all the holes based on a line from the middle of the bridge to the center of the leading edge of thumb hole, the grip drilled as a standard T-grip will look and feel the same as what you're calling the "offset thumb" grip. If you use oval holes the oval angles would also have to be based on the same line. -- JohnP