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Author Topic: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......  (Read 3845 times)

jbuzz31

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On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« on: December 29, 2008, 07:43:26 AM »
.............such as a Bounty,Break S75,Virtual Gravity, Ntense LevRG,etc;
what would putting the MB level with or above the thumb,  and the pin several inches about the bridge, in or near my track , do to the ball reaction?  tame it down severely?  make it even more rolly?  make it even more angular?   just kinda curious what this would do one a strong asymmetrical core and strong cover.
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mrbowlingnut

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 03:58:51 PM »
Just the facts man!!! Pap, wood or synthetics lanes, ball speed,tilt,rev rates  so forth and then you have a chance at someone being close to guessing right.
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jbuzz31

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 04:02:45 PM »
speed and revs are in profile.  i have no idea what my pap or axis tilt is.  and i bowl on both synthetic and wood.   i wasnt asking for an exact layout. was asking about a generic layout so pap or axis tilt shouldnt matter.

but thank you for the help anyway
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JessN16

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 04:21:07 PM »
You've basically described the "Tommy Jones" layout except in that layout, the pin is more towards the VAL than the track.

For me, this is one of the most angular, late reactions I can drill onto a ball. I have one ball drilled with that layout and another very close to it (symmetrical ball with no MB, but the theoretical MB is in the thumb). Really violent move downlane and very strong for me.

Moving the pin to the track -- don't know how that would affect things. I suspect it would tame it out due to longer distance to PAP.

Jess
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mrbowlingnut

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 04:25:52 PM »
If you track at 5 inches or more the ball will go long as suspected, depending on lane surface and tilt,speed, rotation it could a decent backend still.

A low tracker would get more reaction because the pin would be a stronger position, maybe in the 5 inch pin to pap area.

I have seen Micheal Fagan use the exact layout you are suggesting on a BW Solid that hooked a ton for him. But he tracks in the 3 1/2 inch range and spins the crap out of the ball.
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jbuzz31

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2008, 04:26:45 PM »
quote:
You've basically described the "Tommy Jones" layout except in that layout, the pin is more towards the VAL than the track.

For me, this is one of the most angular, late reactions I can drill onto a ball. I have one ball drilled with that layout and another very close to it (symmetrical ball with no MB, but the theoretical MB is in the thumb). Really violent move downlane and very strong for me.

Moving the pin to the track -- don't know how that would affect things. I suspect it would tame it out due to longer distance to PAP.

Jess

i knew the TJ layout was similar but as with you , im curious as to what putting the pin in the track would do. guess not to many people have there ball drilled up like this.
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jbuzz31

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2008, 04:33:54 PM »
quote:
If you track at 5 inches or more the ball will go long as suspected, depending on lane surface and tilt,speed, rotation it could a decent backend still.

A low tracker would get more reaction because the pin would be a stronger position, maybe in the 5 inch pin to pap area.

I have seen Micheal Fagan use the exact layout you are suggesting on a BW Solid that hooked a ton for him. But he tracks in the 3 1/2 inch range and spins the crap out of the ball.
   

so your saying this layout would be weaker for a high tracker than a low tracker?

and mike fagan is just a freak. anything hooks a ton for him lol
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Edited on 12/29/2008 5:34 PM
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mrbowlingnut

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2008, 04:37:14 PM »
I am just saying the pin to pap would be greater, so the core strength would be less. The TJ trick layout uses 1 1/2 pin to pap not even close to 5 inches or more pin to pap.
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mrbowlingnut

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 04:39:37 PM »
Oops it is 1 inch from VAL and 4 inches to pap

http://ebonite.com/resources/drill_detail/raid_drilling_instructions1/

Edited on 12/29/2008 5:40 PM
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jbuzz31

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 04:50:23 PM »
yea except what im thinking of   whereas the pin in right of the grip centerline on the TJ this would be to the left of it.
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mrbowlingnut

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 05:00:07 PM »
If you track like Fagan at I think 3 1/2 over and 1 1/2 up that would be a strong drilling still, if say 5 1/2 over and down like a 1/2 that would be a mile pin to pap.

So i know what you are upto but for most people it would be spare ball, i have a Saturn with the pin 4 inches above my ring and it is dart. Not a strong ball in the first place but not a dead ball either.

I did have a Infinite One way pin high and mb above and right of my thumb, it hooked aton in the last 10 feet or so. Pin to pap was in the 6 inch range and mb was still strong in the 4 1/2 range though. It was alot closer to the trick layout than your idea though.
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jbuzz31

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2008, 06:47:48 AM »
quote:


I did have a Infinite One way pin high and mb above and right of my thumb, it hooked aton in the last 10 feet or so. Pin to pap was in the 6 inch range and mb was still strong in the 4 1/2 range though. It was alot closer to the trick layout than your idea though.


this is kinda the info i was looking for.

also if im not mistaken   putting the in in the track kills alot of the flare potential right?  and also depeneding on core design , would make it roll on its highest RG axis    which would make it roll much later.   correct?
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mrbowlingnut

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2008, 09:40:44 AM »
The ball was straight as an arrow about 40 feet revved up about 10 feet and then took off left on friction.

This was at 1k abralon so very interesting for such a strong ball, cover this time sure did not take over like always suggested on here.


The drilling was probably within 2 inches of the VAL going either left or vertical, the MB was at about 2 oclock to the thumb hole and the cg layed dead in the middle about 3 inches either way.

If I got a ball cheap enough again I would do the same drilling but going in the track probably would kill any flare the strong core would have. It would be only on the MB at that point which might still back end hard like mine did.

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jbuzz31

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2008, 02:38:38 PM »
quote:
The ball was straight as an arrow about 40 feet revved up about 10 feet and then took off left on friction.

This was at 1k abralon so very interesting for such a strong ball, cover this time sure did not take over like always suggested on here.


The drilling was probably within 2 inches of the VAL going either left or vertical, the MB was at about 2 oclock to the thumb hole and the cg layed dead in the middle about 3 inches either way.

If I got a ball cheap enough again I would do the same drilling but going in the track probably would kill any flare the strong core would have. It would be only on the MB at that point which might still back end hard like mine did.




sweet. thanks for the input.  i think i might put it one one of the strong balls out there and see what happens.
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JessN16

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Re: On A strong MB/Strong cover ball......
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2008, 02:49:06 PM »
quote:
quote:
The ball was straight as an arrow about 40 feet revved up about 10 feet and then took off left on friction.

This was at 1k abralon so very interesting for such a strong ball, cover this time sure did not take over like always suggested on here.


The drilling was probably within 2 inches of the VAL going either left or vertical, the MB was at about 2 oclock to the thumb hole and the cg layed dead in the middle about 3 inches either way.

If I got a ball cheap enough again I would do the same drilling but going in the track probably would kill any flare the strong core would have. It would be only on the MB at that point which might still back end hard like mine did.




sweet. thanks for the input.  i think i might put it one one of the strong balls out there and see what happens.
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Let me know how it works for you because I might try it, too. I've only used two balls with the pin in the track -- a Storm X-Factor ReLoaded with the pin in the track (6 inches) and MB just to the right of the thumb. It thumped the holes badly and was inconsistent as hell. When it worked, it worked like mrbowlingnut's ball -- nothing for 40 feet, rev, kick left and go. When it didn't work, it thumped loudly over both middle finger and thumb and went dead straight. Made for a great 10-pin ball. (g)

The other one I had was a Dyno-Thane Element Au-79. Also thumped the holes. Carried very well on high hits but didn't move a bit.

Jess
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