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Author Topic: PAP sanity check  (Read 4639 times)

lefty50

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PAP sanity check
« on: February 23, 2009, 01:15:58 PM »
Is this possible?

I have changed grip substantially from last year. It used to be 4.0 x 1/2 up. Right now, I track exactly 1 inch from the thumb and 1.25 inches from the finger (left handed).

My driller says my PAP is now 5.5 by .25.

Is it possible to be 1 inch away from the thumb and have a 5.5 inch PAP?
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lil League Coach

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Re: PAP sanity check
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 09:26:15 PM »
similar story here:
 As of last year I was 4" by 1/2 up also.
 I changed some stuff with hand positions and span and now its currently at 4  3/4  x  1  3/8 up. The littlest thing make a big difference in PAP.
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bowlerdawg

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Re: PAP sanity check
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 09:28:53 PM »
agreed
changed span brought it in, and pap went up
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nd300

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Re: PAP sanity check
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 09:36:30 PM »
Yes---just by changing the pitch on a ball that I had redrilled,I went from clipping the thumb to being an inch away from it. Went from 3/16" right with zero to 3/16" left and zero.
 While using a wrist guard I was 5 1/4 over and 7/16" up. After going to no wrist guard I'm 4 5/8 over and 3/4 up.
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lefty50

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Re: PAP sanity check
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2009, 06:11:20 AM »
Understood, but I may have mis-stated the real question... PAPs over 5.25 are atypically high (IMHO). 5.5 seems quite large a PAP to still be an inch away from the thumb. Let me ask the question this way. Is there an approximation of PAP possible, and is it true, that the closer you get to tracking at the thumbhole the higher your PAP will be? I would think that still being an inch away fromt the thumb would yield a PAP of less than 5 for sure....
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Dan Belcher

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Re: PAP sanity check
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 06:22:18 AM »
quote:
Understood, but I may have mis-stated the real question... PAPs over 5.25 are atypically high (IMHO). 5.5 seems quite large a PAP to still be an inch away from the thumb. Let me ask the question this way. Is there an approximation of PAP possible, and is it true, that the closer you get to tracking at the thumbhole the higher your PAP will be? I would think that still being an inch away fromt the thumb would yield a PAP of less than 5 for sure....
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Your PAP is NOT directly correlated with your axis tilt, which means you can have a PAP far away from grip center but still not track over the thumbhole.  My PAP is 5 1/4" over by 3/4" up, and my track comes within about 1.5 inches of my thumbhole.  It all depends on how much axis tilt you have, which determines how big your track diameter is.  (And by the way, Pete Weber's PAP is 6" straight across, and he doesn't roll over the thumbhole)

JohnP

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Re: PAP sanity check
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 09:13:05 AM »
Your PAP location seems right for the track you described.  You will get more meaningful results if you measure from the grip centerline instead of from the holes.  If the initial track ring is closer to the cl at the thumb than at the fingers, the vertical PAP component will be positive (up).  If it's closer to the cl at the fingers than at the thumb, the vertical component will be negative (down).  If it's the same at both, the PAP will be straight across.  The horizontal component is dependent on the center of the initial track ring, or the negative axis point (NAP).  The PAP is directly across the ball from the NAP, so as Dan said the PAP location is dependent on both the location of the initial track ring and the axis tilt (track diameter).  --  JohnP

Tom

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Re: PAP sanity check
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2009, 11:06:21 PM »
lefty 50,
If you question the positive axis point your ball driller came up with you can easily recheck it. I have always looked at drillers as I would a doctor. Many are specialists and many are general practitioners. You as the patient need to convey as much information as you can so they can properly diagnose your needs.

Your PAP is affected by changing the span, pitches in the finger and thumb hole also changing the way you release the ball can drastically change your positive axis point.

Just in case you have a general practitioner I would suggest you spring for a quarter scale and recheck your PAP. This will also give you a tool where you can layout the drilling you want then have the driller punch the holes. I would also suggest getting a copy of your hand layout, if you don’t already have one, and recreate it on your computer. Microsoft Publisher is a good program to use because of its ability to create circles and lines along with text boxes.

I took a ball and laid it out using a track that was 1-1/4” off the fingers and 1” off the thumb and came out with 4-1/4” over and 1/2 “ up. That is more or less along the line of what you though it should be.

If you have a quarter scale you can roll your a plastic of urethane ball, preferably a solid color, and trace the oil line. Establish a centerline and a midline. Off the oil line draw two lines perpendicular to the oil line. Draw one about an inch below the fingers across the ball and one about an inch above the thumb across the ball. Where these two lines intersect will be your positive axis point.

Most bowlers have benchmark release that they normally use. This is the release that you want to use when determining your PAP. If you are bowling on super wet or dry conditions most bowlers will change their release and in turn their axis point will change but you still want your equipment drilled to reflect the release you normally use.      

lefty50

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Re: PAP sanity check
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 06:14:00 AM »
THANKS TOM!

I definitely thought thst my driller was incorrect. The PAP you came up with is close to what I personally think  is right. I'm going to get it rechecked since drilling a ball off those two very different specs would cause a very different result.

Again, thank you.
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dizzyfugu

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Re: PAP sanity check
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 06:22:46 AM »
quote:


My driller says my PAP is now 5.5 by .25.

Is it possible to be 1 inch away from the thumb and have a 5.5 inch PAP?



Yes - you should track pretty close to the middle finger, though? But it makes sense/sounds plausible to me.
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JohnP

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Re: PAP sanity check
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 09:48:12 AM »
The absolute best way to check your PAP is with a non-flaring ball and a piece of white tape.  You can do a pretty good job of locating the PAP your driller gave you with a metal tape measure.  Draw the grip center line in (you'll need a flexible straight edge), then draw a line at the bridge that connects the gripping surfaces of the fingers.  Use the tape to measure from the leading edge of the thumb hole (the straight section of the hole, eliminate all bevel) to the line you drew at the bridge.  Divide that measurement in half and mark the grip center.  Now use the 1" mark on the tape to get the tape perpendicular to the center line and measure over the horizontal PAP distance, remembering to add the 1" offset of the tape.  Use the flexible straightedge to draw in the midline.  Now use the tape again similarly to measure the vertical component and mark the PAP location with a piece of ~3/4" white tape and throw the ball.  If the tape stays stationary, the PAP is correct.  If not, you'll have to move the tape around until it does stay stationary, then measure backwards as above to get the correct PAP dimensions.  --  JohnP