BallReviews

General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: TeeP Nade on February 11, 2015, 01:16:21 PM

Title: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: TeeP Nade on February 11, 2015, 01:16:21 PM
idk if its just the shows and people i watch but i'm seeing alot of pba bowlers use pin up either above bridge(mostly)or pin above ring is that just a better layout on sport conditions(besides real heavy oil) my favorite layout for my house shot is pin below ring finger but when i bowl on sport i use a lot of pin above bridge stuff and do well with it, is that just a coincidence or is pin up just better for sport?
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: SVstar34 on February 11, 2015, 02:06:17 PM
coincidence.

Each person is different. Each pattern plays different depending on lane surface and topography
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: Good Times Good Times on February 11, 2015, 02:13:06 PM
idk if its just the shows and people i watch but i'm seeing alot of pba bowlers use pin up either above bridge(mostly)or pin above ring is that just a better layout on sport conditions(besides real heavy oil) my favorite layout for my house shot is pin below ring finger but when i bowl on sport i use a lot of pin above bridge stuff and do well with it, is that just a coincidence or is pin up just better for sport?

TRANSLATION:

I don't know if it is just the shows (and people I watch) but I'm seeing a lot of PBA bowlers use pin-up (above the bridge mostly or above the ring finger) layouts. 

Is that a better layout on sport conditions (aside from heavy oil)?

My favorite layout for my house shot is with the pin below the ring finger, but when I bowl on sport patterns I use a lot of pin above the bridge stuff and do well with it. 

Is it a coincidence or are pin-up layouts better on sport conditions?
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: TeeP Nade on February 11, 2015, 02:48:54 PM
idk if its just the shows and people i watch but i'm seeing alot of pba bowlers use pin up either above bridge(mostly)or pin above ring is that just a better layout on sport conditions(besides real heavy oil) my favorite layout for my house shot is pin below ring finger but when i bowl on sport i use a lot of pin above bridge stuff and do well with it, is that just a coincidence or is pin up just better for sport?

TRANSLATION:

I don't know if it is just the shows (and people I watch) but I'm seeing a lot of PBA bowlers use pin-up (above the bridge mostly or above the ring finger) layouts. 

Is that a better layout on sport conditions (aside from heavy oil)?

My favorite layout for my house shot is with the pin below the ring finger, but when I bowl on sport patterns I use a lot of pin above the bridge stuff and do well with it. 

Is it a coincidence or are pin-up layouts better on sport conditions?
umm...k
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: Brickguy221 on February 11, 2015, 04:04:23 PM
idk if its just the shows and people i watch but i'm seeing alot of pba bowlers use pin up either above bridge(mostly)or pin above ring is that just a better layout on sport conditions(besides real heavy oil) my favorite layout for my house shot is pin below ring finger but when i bowl on sport i use a lot of pin above bridge stuff and do well with it, is that just a coincidence or is pin up just better for sport?

TRANSLATION:

I don't know if it is just the shows (and people I watch) but I'm seeing a lot of PBA bowlers use pin-up (above the bridge mostly or above the ring finger) layouts. 

Is that a better layout on sport conditions (aside from heavy oil)?

My favorite layout for my house shot is with the pin below the ring finger, but when I bowl on sport patterns I use a lot of pin above the bridge stuff and do well with it. 

Is it a coincidence or are pin-up layouts better on sport conditions?

Pin below RF for me also GT
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: charlest on February 11, 2015, 04:20:06 PM
idk if its just the shows and people i watch but i'm seeing alot of pba bowlers use pin up either above bridge(mostly)or pin above ring is that just a better layout on sport conditions(besides real heavy oil) my favorite layout for my house shot is pin below ring finger but when i bowl on sport i use a lot of pin above bridge stuff and do well with it, is that just a coincidence or is pin up just better for sport?

TRANSLATION:

I don't know if it is just the shows (and people I watch) but I'm seeing a lot of PBA bowlers use pin-up (above the bridge mostly or above the ring finger) layouts. 

Is that a better layout on sport conditions (aside from heavy oil)?

My favorite layout for my house shot is with the pin below the ring finger, but when I bowl on sport patterns I use a lot of pin above the bridge stuff and do well with it. 

Is it a coincidence or are pin-up layouts better on sport conditions?
umm...k

The answer is ALWAYS "it depends" ...
on the bowler's release/delivery
on the oil pattern
on the ball being used

One other thing to note is that pin up locations tend (I emphasize "tend", it is not an always situation) to increase the dynamics of the core. Ball reaction depends,  again, in general, on 3 major factors:
1. The bowler's release
2.the coverstock of the ball
3. the core's potential dynamics.
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: JohnP on February 11, 2015, 07:33:39 PM
Pin up drillings have a smaller angle to the VAL than lower pins.  Smaller angles to the VAL (or smaller distances to the VAL using the Storm system) have quicker, "snappier" reaction to the dry at the end of the pattern.  --  JohnP
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: billdozer on February 11, 2015, 07:35:52 PM
Idk I see a lot of pin down layouts...the only one I see consistently going pin above the bridge is rash..
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: TeeP Nade on February 11, 2015, 09:32:20 PM
Idk I see a lot of pin down layouts...the only one I see consistently going pin above the bridge is rash..
yea like i said maybe it's just the ones i watch, cause i dont watch as much pba bowling as others do. i kinda watch it now that football season is over if their's nothing else to watch. so maybe it's just me lol
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: Joker-1 on February 11, 2015, 10:10:07 PM
for pin ups i talked to machuga before and he said that one of the most common layouts (also following the bowler's paps and whatnot) is a pin up above the bridge with the cg kicked to the right or left if left hander about 15 degrees.
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: TeeP Nade on February 12, 2015, 10:43:55 AM
for pin ups i talked to machuga before and he said that one of the most common layouts (also following the bowler's paps and whatnot) is a pin up above the bridge with the cg kicked to the right or left if left hander about 15 degrees.
hmm wounder y that is... that layout normally dosnt hook at all for me, but maybe sometimes thats what they need i guess lol plus im sure most pba bowlers can generate a ton of revs if they feel the need
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: Joker-1 on February 12, 2015, 12:20:00 PM
He was explaining the whole idea is to have a control layout, something thats in the middle of too much hook vs too little or too much backend vs not enough
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: TeeP Nade on February 12, 2015, 02:39:05 PM
He was explaining the whole idea is to have a control layout, something thats in the middle of too much hook vs too little or too much backend vs not enough
ahh i c
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: Rightycomplex on February 12, 2015, 08:52:21 PM
We are using the term pin up, instead of pin to PAP.... This frightens me. Most of what you see are long pin to pap layouts and short VALs for lower flare and later transitions. Most of those guys are using 5 1/2-6" pin to pap because they are trying to get the ball downlane but also not let it get sideways or in asyms creating a hook/set reaction.
Those types of layouts are necessary once you start to move in with 400+rpms.
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: kidlost2000 on February 12, 2015, 11:07:55 PM
RC I'm with you.  It's the ball, pin to pap, and surface.
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: TeeP Nade on February 13, 2015, 10:35:22 PM
We are using the term pin up, instead of pin to PAP.... This frightens me. Most of what you see are long pin to pap layouts and short VALs for lower flare and later transitions. Most of those guys are using 5 1/2-6" pin to pap because they are trying to get the ball downlane but also not let it get sideways or in asyms creating a hook/set reaction.
Those types of layouts are necessary once you start to move in with 400+rpms.
makes sense how short of a val angle u think their using? like 20-30?
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: Rightycomplex on February 14, 2015, 12:52:12 AM
That would depend on their PAP, no way to tell just by looking at the ball. I know Chris Barnes said that he only uses 2 layouts outside of the Rico. A pin down 4" from PAP when he's playing straighter and a Pin up 6" from PAP once he moves in.
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: soonerdallas on February 14, 2015, 10:17:21 AM
Is there an article or video behind Chris Barnes going to only a couple layouts? He is very smart when it comes to cores and covers and I'm surprised he would limit himself to only a couple choices. Or maybe it's because covers are so strong now there is no point to over think it.  I would love to know his reasoning behind that.
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: kidlost2000 on February 14, 2015, 10:33:31 AM
Many articles have been posted talking about layouts and sticking to a few and letting ball and surface being the difference. I thought there was a real good one with Norm Duke from several years ago floating around.

The only limit is your ability.
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: Rightycomplex on February 14, 2015, 06:02:24 PM
Is there an article or video behind Chris Barnes going to only a couple layouts? He is very smart when it comes to cores and covers and I'm surprised he would limit himself to only a couple choices. Or maybe it's because covers are so strong now there is no point to over think it.  I would love to know his reasoning behind that.

It was posted to C300s website a few years ago. But the better questions is how many layouts do you think anyone actually uses? You have a benchmark layout, and maybe 2 others. Other than that, weighthole and more importantly SURFACE will be a much bigger dictation of ball reaction.
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: lilpossum1 on February 14, 2015, 06:20:36 PM
Keeping surface the same, how much of a difference can a person realistically make using layouts and weight holes? Keeping a ball legal of course
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: Rightycomplex on February 14, 2015, 06:53:10 PM
Keeping surface the same, how much of a difference can a person realistically make using layouts and weight holes? Keeping a ball legal of course


You can make drastic changes in the shape on the lane. Pin to PAP, PSA strength,  flare increasing and decreasing holes that effect the diff. Check out the Radical bowling videos with Dan McCaskill and Rob Way. Those to me are the best vids at giving you a wide spectrum of layouts and hole placements that show the difference in reaction shape and reaction. Surface will only add to the results
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: northface28 on February 14, 2015, 10:20:09 PM
Many articles have been posted talking about layouts and sticking to a few and letting ball and surface being the difference. I thought there was a real good one with Norm Duke from several years ago floating around.

The only limit is your ability.


"Norms Box"

http://www.kegel.net/V3/ArticleDetails.aspx?ID=43 (http://www.kegel.net/V3/ArticleDetails.aspx?ID=43)
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: kidlost2000 on February 14, 2015, 10:40:41 PM
That's the one…… older then I thought lol
Title: Re: pba bowlers throwing pin up?
Post by: itsallaboutme on February 15, 2015, 09:36:12 AM
Using a range of 3 3/8 to 6 1/4 inches is a lot different than using just 2 layout. 

What everyone is missing is most guys will use a couple of layouts as there "go to's", but if they need something different they have the ability to head straight to the truck to have another ball drilled.