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Author Topic: Pin center of grip vs short pin to pap  (Read 7678 times)

J_w73

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Pin center of grip vs short pin to pap
« on: January 11, 2023, 12:15:27 PM »
Just wondering what people's opinion is on a pin at center of grip(5" pin to PAP) to create a smooth controlled ball motion vs a short 2" pin to PAP layout? 

Do you think one is better than the other for balls with a higher RG vs lower RG? 

Is one better than the other for balls with high differential vs low differential?

I know with an asymmetrical ball you will get more of a Rico layout motion with the pin at center grip , but I'm just wondering about symmetrical balls at this time.
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ignitebowling

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Re: Pin center of grip vs short pin to pap
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2023, 12:02:33 PM »
Quote from: Strider on January 14, 2023, 12:52:59 AM
I do see more length with the long pin to PAP distance, but I don't see the fast response to friction from your initial response. If I did, maybe I'd like the reaction more. Right now it has no place in my bag. Maybe for someone with a higher rev rate? From memory, high rev guys liked the (true) Rico drill with the weight hole more also.

How fast the ball sees and responds to friction has a lot to do with the ball, surface, and bowlers style.
My rev rate is 400rpm and i prefer to have one ball in my tournament bag on the rico layout (vapor zone vintage) along with one lower end symmetric ball that has a 2" pin (black Raw, or Counter Attack solid). Two very different looks two very different purposes for me. The 2" pin allows me to keep my angles infront of me when the backends are really fresh. This has to be done playing further right. When i move in and try to open up my angles some with the short pin it will not kick cornes. The rico layout when bowling on non-short sport patterns allows me to play further left and control the backends from that angle.

Rarely will you see conditions where you are able to use a short pin from deeper angles and carry corners very well.  Thats where the short pin vs rico layout fit for me.
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J_w73

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Re: Pin center of grip vs short pin to pap
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2023, 01:18:00 AM »
Is there a worry of the ball flaring over the finger holes with the pin at center grip?  I know before the weight hole would help push the bowtie up, but now we can't do that.
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Strider

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Re: Pin center of grip vs short pin to pap
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2023, 08:03:26 AM »
Quote from: ignitebowling on January 14, 2023, 12:02:33 PM
Rarely will you see conditions where you are able to use a short pin from deeper angles and carry corners very well.  Thats where the short pin vs rico layout fit for me.

Are you talking about the past? Since you can no longer use weight holes, there is no more Rico layout. That's why the OP was asking about pin in grip center vs. short pin to PAP. With no weight hole, the pin in grip center is too lazy for me. My rev rate is lower so maybe that's some of the difference I'm seeing.

J_w73 - I didn't look at the flare rings when I threw it.
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ignitebowling

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Re: Pin center of grip vs short pin to pap
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2023, 08:43:14 AM »
Quote from: Strider on January 15, 2023, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: ignitebowling on January 14, 2023, 12:02:33 PM
Rarely will you see conditions where you are able to use a short pin from deeper angles and carry corners very well.  Thats where the short pin vs rico layout fit for me.

Are you talking about the past? Since you can no longer use weight holes, there is no more Rico layout. That's why the OP was asking about pin in grip center vs. short pin to PAP. With no weight hole, the pin in grip center is too lazy for me. My rev rate is lower so maybe that's some of the difference I'm seeing.

J_w73 - I didn't look at the flare rings when I threw it.


Im talking about today



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ignitebowling

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Re: Pin center of grip vs short pin to pap
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2023, 08:53:12 AM »
Quote from: Strider on January 15, 2023, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: ignitebowling on January 14, 2023, 12:02:33 PM
Rarely will you see conditions where you are able to use a short pin from deeper angles and carry corners very well.  Thats where the short pin vs rico layout fit for me.

Are you talking about the past? Since you can no longer use weight holes, there is no more Rico layout. That's why the OP was asking about pin in grip center vs. short pin to PAP. With no weight hole, the pin in grip center is too lazy for me. My rev rate is lower so maybe that's some of the difference I'm seeing.

J_w73 - I didn't look at the flare rings when I threw it.

Also with the Rico layout for anyone the pin to pap is important. Depending on your style if the pin to pap is say 5.5" away youd probably want to adjust it slightly closer to your pap say the 4.75 to 5" range

You can no longer get this from a symmetric bowling ball but you still can using asymmetric.
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ignitebowling

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Re: Pin center of grip vs short pin to pap
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2023, 08:54:37 AM »
Quote from: J_w73 on January 15, 2023, 01:18:00 AM
Is there a worry of the ball flaring over the finger holes with the pin at center grip?  I know before the weight hole would help push the bowtie up, but now we can't do that.

Yes depending on your style. For some they moved the pin an 1" above center grip. Moving the pin up and down moves the bowties with it
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Strider

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Re: Pin center of grip vs short pin to pap
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2023, 07:23:02 AM »
Well, Rico was originally a way to give a symmetric ball more asymmetry after drilling. I forget the pros/cons of using Rico on an asymmetric. The weight hole on an asymmetric probably didn't near as much affect, but I thought they still originally had one. I don't want to argue with Mr. Hamlin, but it looks like he's shifting the definition to just a smooth reacting ball. There's more than one way to get that.
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ignitebowling

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Re: Pin center of grip vs short pin to pap
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2023, 11:12:49 AM »
Quote from: Strider on January 16, 2023, 07:23:02 AM
Well, Rico was originally a way to give a symmetric ball more asymmetry after drilling. I forget the pros/cons of using Rico on an asymmetric. The weight hole on an asymmetric probably didn't near as much affect, but I thought they still originally had one. I don't want to argue with Mr. Hamlin, but it looks like he's shifting the definition to just a smooth reacting ball. There's more than one way to get that.

Never heard anyone mention the layout was about "creating more asymmetry". Especially with the weight hole size and depth being used to fine tune the reaction by starting out fairly shallow then drilling out when the track flare and reaction is where it is needed to be. The location of the weight hole was key in that as well once again not for "more asymmetry" but for ball shape bringing the psa out towards the val and for many bowling styles the weight hole was in the ball park of 3 3/8"s from their pap.

Sounds like you are confusing it with Mo and the double thumb layout.

Hamlin mentioned on here many times and social media the intended idea behind it and where it had so much success on tough conditions (mini eliminator I believe being one) blending out the pattern. That hasn't changed.
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