Author Topic: Pin location preference for PBA patterns? (Read 3857 times)

Xcessive_Evil · « **on:** June 08, 2009, 06:19:34 PM »

From what I saw in a horrible outing this past weekend, it is my assumpiton that Pin above bridge layouts work better for Cheetah and Viper, where pin below works better for Chameleon, Scorpion and Shark. Any thoughts/comments/etc on this?

I'm a RH, rev-dominant bowler who tracks high with a 4-1/4 right, 1/4 down PAP if that helps any.
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Hope this is not Chris'' blood....
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River700 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:29:05 AM »

Pin above layouts will make the ball get more length, but since the cheetah and viper have a lot of friction in the back part of the lane, sometimes a pin under bridge with the cg stacked, like a 5 x 5 might work better. Now for the shark, a pin under bridge with a good amount of surface could help, but it could also not hook once it gets to the friction because of the surface and the amount the ball is flairing. One thing that I have seen and heard a lot on here is people talking about doing pin up layouts, like at 4 1/2 and 5 from pap with some surface, the pin up allows the ball to store some energy, but the surface gets the ball to read the lane in the middle where it is needed. But, it depends, on revs, speed, axis tilt, volumn and type of bowling surface. I see the Chameleon as a slightly modified house shot, with less oil in the middle and slightly more oil on the outside. Now pin under bridge could be a good drill for this pattern, but as it breaks down, then a pin up might work better to get a little more lenght and backend as the lane dries up.
Also, your pap of 4 1/4 over is not really a high track, but would be considered more as a lower track, my pap is 5 3/8 over and 3/8 up and I track next to fingers and thumb, so I would be considered as a high tracker. I hope this helps

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Bowling is fun, enjoy it, don't hate it

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:52:35 AM »

quote:
Pin above layouts will make the ball get more length, but since the cheetah and viper have a lot of friction in the back part of the lane, sometimes a pin under bridge with the cg stacked, like a 5 x 5 might work better. Now for the shark, a pin under bridge with a good amount of surface could help, but it could also not hook once it gets to the friction because of the surface and the amount the ball is flairing. One thing that I have seen and heard a lot on here is people talking about doing pin up layouts, like at 4 1/2 and 5 from pap with some surface, the pin up allows the ball to store some energy, but the surface gets the ball to read the lane in the middle where it is needed. But, it depends, on revs, speed, axis tilt, volumn and type of bowling surface. I see the Chameleon as a slightly modified house shot, with less oil in the middle and slightly more oil on the outside. Now pin under bridge could be a good drill for this pattern, but as it breaks down, then a pin up might work better to get a little more lenght and backend as the lane dries up.
Also, your pap of 4 1/4 over is not really a high track, but would be considered more as a lower track, my pap is 5 3/8 over and 3/8 up and I track next to fingers and thumb, so I would be considered as a high tracker. I hope this helps
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Bowling is fun, enjoy it, don't hate it

It does help. The cheaper route would be to put some surface on it. I do have a significant amount of revs, so in recent times I've stuck with no more of a dull surface than 4000. I thought I tracked high because I track very close to my finger and thumb as well.

It also makes sense about what you said about that pattern. Thanks.
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Hope this is not Chris' blood....
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX

JessN16 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 09, 2009, 04:23:34 AM »

Xcessive,

My PAP is 4 over 3/8 up, but I track very close to the fingers and thumb on occasion. Whether your track is low or high is more dependent on axis tilt. Lots of tilt, you'll track low.

It's kind of a misnomer that guys with short PAPs are spinners or low-trackers. You can be a low tracker with a PAP of 6 over if you somehow spin it at that angle. Not very much tilt, you'll track high. Sounds like you're like me and don't have a lot of tilt.

To answer your original question, I typically like pins either in the ring, just next to it or just over it on most of the PBA shots. I realize that's counter-intuitive to what a lot of people say but that's what works for me. Pins in that location for me end up being somewhere between 3.25 and 4 inches away from the PAP.

If I go pin under on PBA patterns, I tend to have the problem of the ball wanting to roll too soon, and it hampers my ability to find hold. I don't know how your game is tuned, but mine is built around prioritizing hold over recovery (the more direct I can play, the better I like it on tougher patterns). I then use surface to affect the breakpoint.

Jess

Edited on 6/9/2009 4:24 AM

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #4 on:** June 09, 2009, 04:37:31 AM »

Jess,

You're right, I don't have alot of tilt at all. I've been working alot at tuning my game-primarily more sporadic spare shooting and the ability to not only have a straighter game, but to play further right than 15 when I need to. Whereas recovery is fine on a house shot, as you said, hold is more key on a tougher shot.

I'm so glad that I'm not in league this summer, so I can work on all of this.

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Hope this is not Chris' blood....
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX

Mike Austin · « **Reply #5 on:** June 09, 2009, 11:02:43 PM »

I generally like pin down layouts for the PBA patterns. I don't really want the ball to go sideways at the break point. Usually like low extra holes to increase flare but be predictable.

Pin up layouts work well too, but usually add some surface to these balls, depending on the pattern.

My PAP is 4 1/2 over and 3/4 up. High tilt players will get a sideways reaction down lane, which is not always good. The OP has a down measurement in his PAP, so he has to watch having too much pin over the fingers, as this will make it farther away from PAP, maybe saving too much energy.
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J_Mac · « **Reply #6 on:** June 09, 2009, 11:22:26 PM »

Pin up vs. pin below hardly makes a difference... It's when the pin is closer or further away from the VAL that has more effect.

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #7 on:** June 09, 2009, 11:32:37 PM »

Interesting info.

J_Mac, can you elaborate more?
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Hope this is not Chris' blood....
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX

J_Mac · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2009, 11:48:51 PM »

quote:
Interesting info.

J_Mac, can you elaborate more?

Brunswick had listed 10 variables that can be altered in a ball. Pin up/pin down ranked #8, right above top weight (#9) and side weight (dead last).

The first one on the list is coverstock type follow by coverstock strength and then surface roughness...

Higher pins tend to be closer to the VAL. Pins closer to the VAL have a quicker transition period when they encounter friction. Your standard flippy reaction...

Low pins are generally further away from the VAL and take their time to transition once they encounter friction.

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #9 on:** June 09, 2009, 11:51:07 PM »

Thanks.
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Hope this is not Chris' blood....
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX

iamone78 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:48:09 AM »

quote:
... It's when the pin is closer or further away from the VAL that has more effect.

Also known as Pin Buffer.

X,
Read about Mo's Dual Angle Layout Technique. This provides great knowledge on how to layout a ball for a specific ball reaction that you would want on whatever lane condition you encounter. This is works great for house shots to sport shots. Really allows you to tailor each ball accordingly.

Personally, from my experience, this layout technique has produced very good results. The results on the lane support the layout technique.

http://www.morichbowling.com/MosCorner/DualAngleSeminar/DualAngleSeminar.htm

Good stuff and hopefully it may help you out and allow you to find certain layouts that work better for you on sport shots.

River700 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2009, 12:15:52 PM »

That is interesting about your lower pap but tracking close to the fingers and thumb, I haven't seen that one yet...hehe

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Bowling is fun, enjoy it, don't hate it

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #12 on:** June 10, 2009, 06:15:31 PM »

I've been read the DA layouts alot lately, and I've actually used that on a Rising S.E. and a Power Machine and works as advertised. I'll keep reading.

As for my short PAP and track location, I don't know why that is, but I see oil tracks maybe 1/2" Away from my ring finger and about 1" from my thumb. I'm told I have very minimal axis tilt.
--------------------
Hope this is not Chris' blood....
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX

Author Topic: Pin location preference for PBA patterns? (Read 3857 times)

Xcessive_Evil

Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

River700

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

Xcessive_Evil

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

JessN16

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

Xcessive_Evil

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

Mike Austin

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

J_Mac

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

Xcessive_Evil

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

J_Mac

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

Xcessive_Evil

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

iamone78

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

River700

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?

Xcessive_Evil

Re: Pin location preference for PBA patterns?