Post by: DonSVO on March 28, 2005, 08:09:20 AM
3 3/8" pin-to-PAP is considered the primo spot for optimum (most) flair.
some people say that CG is irrelavent in a ball's reaction. well, if i stick the pin 3 3/8" from the PAP, where should the CG go? would the pin in relation to center of grip be the determining factor, and not related to the CG?
so with that being stated, if the pin were 3 3/8" from the PAP above the fingers, would it roll further than a pin 3 3/8"from PAP UNDER the fingers? AFAIK, the CG would then be considered VERY relavent, since you would be increasing/decreasing the distance from PAP at all times.
i am trying to sort this out in my head, i get a dozen different ideas/methods, someone make a bit of sense to me on this.
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funniest thing i have ever read on here:
originally posted by Bjaardker, about if brunswick sells 2nds/blems:
Yeah, they're called Lane #1s....
JUST KIDDING!!!
Edited on 3/28/2005 5:12 PM
Post by: CoachJim on March 29, 2005, 03:43:31 AM
When you put the Pin above the finger line (line from finger holes to pap) it will delay the hook of the ball and it will retain rotation a little longer.
When you put the pin below the finger line it will roll hook earlier and lose rotation sooner.
The cg can be used to change the shape of the back end movment of the ball.
Pointing the cg toward the pap makes the ball roll end over end from the breakpoint.
Pointing the cg 75 degrees from the pap makes the ball snap harder from the breakpoint.
Pointing the cg 105+ degrees from the pap makes the ball arc from the breakpoint.
Post by: T-GOD on March 29, 2005, 06:58:41 AM
Post by: DonSVO on March 29, 2005, 08:18:40 AM
quote:
The cg can be used to change the shape of the back end movment of the ball.
Pointing the cg toward the pap makes the ball roll end over end from the breakpoint.
Pointing the cg 75 degrees from the pap makes the ball snap harder from the breakpoint.
Pointing the cg 105+ degrees from the pap makes the ball arc from the breakpoint.
so i assume, by shifting the CG "105 degrees" and "70 degrees", you mean in relation from the PAP-to-pin line?
--------------------
funniest thing i have ever read on here:
originally posted by Bjaardker, about if brunswick sells 2nds/blems:
Yeah, they're called Lane #1s....
JUST KIDDING!!!
Post by: CoachJim on March 29, 2005, 02:50:29 PM
quote:
so i assume, by shifting the CG "105 degrees" and "70 degrees", you mean in relation from the PAP-to-pin line?
Yes that is correct. For instance a ball drilled with the pin, cg and Pap in line would be drilled at 0 degrees and a stacked drilling would be approximately 75 degrees.
Post by: stanski on March 29, 2005, 08:44:41 PM
quote:
But then again... CG's don't matter.
Pin distance from PAP - for amount of flare.
Pin distace above midline - when it flares.
Is that correct?
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- John Allen
Freak - Inferno - Banshee - BH Flame - Rhino
No, above midline raises/lowers the rg.
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stanski
Post by: Jeffrevs on March 30, 2005, 06:03:19 AM
quote:
In my experience, especially if you have a good amount of revs on the ball, the MB and/or the ending CG has as much, if not more effect on ball reaction than does pin placement. =:^D
Huh?? so , say the pin is at 3 3/8 ...you're saying the mb and/or trhe ending cg placement has AS MUCH if not MORE effect on ball reaction than the 3 3/8 pin placment ?!?
Come on! please!
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JEFF
"Oh...that's puce"
Sully; Monsters, Inc.
Post by: jimensminger on March 30, 2005, 07:27:15 AM
Post by: Brickguy221 on March 30, 2005, 07:46:07 AM
quote:
Huh?? so , say the pin is at 3 3/8 ...you're saying the mb and/or trhe ending cg placement has AS MUCH if not MORE effect on ball reaction than the 3 3/8 pin placment ?!?
Come on! please!
T-God still thinks he is arguing with BrunsRicH....
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Owner of a 129 game bowled with a Brunswick Impulse Zone.
Post by: DonSVO on March 30, 2005, 10:00:17 AM
quote:
I read through these boards and see the same things over and over,..everyones opinions and expertise on the "prefect" layouts....here's my thoughts for what they're worth,...Layouts maybe dictate about 5% of the scoring advantage,..the other 95% of scoring options come from LANE CONDITIONS and BALL SURFACE.
so you're saying that a ball drilled to hook early and ALOT, put on a dry lane where it rolls out at 40 feet... thats not going affect your scoring but maybe 5%
we have NO CONTROL over the lanes. however, we can control the drilling layout and surface prep.so with that said, drilling your ball to match to your condition is paramount. you are thinking about it backwards.
--------------------
funniest thing i have ever read on here:
originally posted by Bjaardker, about if brunswick sells 2nds/blems:
Yeah, they're called Lane #1s....
JUST KIDDING!!!
Post by: jimensminger on March 30, 2005, 12:08:16 PM
In any tournament played the first and foremost consideration is lane conditioning. After you know that, your second thought is a ball surface,...then layouts fine tune to the known elements. That's why the PBA regional guys and the touring as well want to know the "pattern", once they know the pattern they then pick a "surface" or ball,..then they fine tune to that....why do guys want to know what's the shot at Nationals...so the can pick a ball/surface and then lay it out to do maybe what they think they will need. But Lane Conditions and the Ball Surface is the most important part of the selection process...to me it's 95% of the thought and results,..the layouts are 5%,....let's say you're going to a tournament and you have NO IDEA of what you will find,...and you can take 4 balls....what would you rather have one ball layed out for 4 different reactions,....or 4 different balls all layed out the same way with different surfaces....Lay outs are used to enhance a known variable,...
Post by: JohnP on March 30, 2005, 08:18:17 PM
quote:
so you're saying that a ball drilled to hook early and ALOT, put on a dry lane where it rolls out at 40 feet... thats not going affect your scoring but maybe 5%
DonSVO -- Let's look at this a different way. If you have a ball that's rolling out at 40 feet, there is no layout that's going to change that ball's reaction enough to get it to the pins without rolling out. You may get it there by changing your speed or release, but otherwise you'll have to go to a ball with a less aggressive coverstock/core/surface combination. -- JohnP
Post by: laufaye on March 31, 2005, 01:48:23 AM
quote:
i understand that flair generally creates hook... the more a ball flares the more 'fresh' ball surface is being offered up to the lane to bite. so...
3 3/8" pin-to-PAP is considered the primo spot for optimum (most) flair.
Max flare = more friction, but not always equal to hook, it depends on ball surface and lane conditions and .......
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Laufaye