BallReviews

General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: Brickguy221 on July 02, 2006, 08:16:48 AM

Title: Pin Positions
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 02, 2006, 08:16:48 AM
If you "could" take two identical balls with identical specs and drill one with the Pin 4.75" from the PAP and the Pin under the bridge and drill the other one with the Pin 4.75" from PAP and the Pin over RF, will there be a difference in which ball will get the most length down the lane?


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Brick

Edited on 7/10/2006 12:06 PM
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: shelley on July 02, 2006, 04:27:49 PM
Pin-over should be longer than pin-under.  Probably not terrifically noticeable, though.  You'd likely need a computer, sensors, and a throwbot to really capture it.

I think the difference would be more akin to leaving a ringing-10 (coming in behind the head pin) versus carrying it (coming in just a hair higher).  There's such a small difference in where and how the ball enters the pocket that without the leftover 10-pin, you couldn't tell a difference.

SH
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 02, 2006, 04:36:33 PM
Shelly, the reason I am asking is that I have a short Pin ball that is going to need some length and to keep from putting the CG above the mid-line, I need to try getting some length under the bridge or in that area.
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Brick
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: shelley on July 02, 2006, 04:51:47 PM
I think surface adjustments would do that better than a small layout difference.  But with your PAP, putting the pin in the bridge area should be nearly 5" from your PAP, so you'll get some additional length just from that.  You could always try it out with the pin under the bridge, then adjusting from there.

You could also try drilling the thumb slightly shallower than normal (so long as you aren't touching bottom, a little shallower should be ok).  That should add a little finger weight, giving a little more length as well.

SH
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 02, 2006, 05:07:03 PM
Quote
[You could also try drilling the thumb slightly shallower than normal (so long as you aren't touching bottom, a little shallower should be ok). That should add a little finger weight, giving a little more length as well.

/quote]

Hmmmmmmmm...Thanks Shelly, I never thought about that.

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Brick
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: tjj300 on July 02, 2006, 09:12:21 PM
Actually, you should drill the thumb a little deeper than normal to add thumb weight. Also, you can drill the fingers shallower than normal and trim your inserts to fit. For length, you would want a hair less than 1 oz of finger weight.


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The pacifist is as surely a traitor to his country and to humanity as is the most brutal wrongdoer.
--Theodore Roosevelt
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: shelley on July 02, 2006, 09:17:13 PM
quote:
Actually, you should drill the thumb a little deeper than normal to add thumb weight.


Actually, neither one of us has gotten it right.  Finger weight is what we're after, but drilling the thumb shallower won't do it.  That'll add thumb weight.  Drilling it deeper won't add thumb weight (as you said), it'll add finger weight (I think it was a typo on your part).

SH
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 02, 2006, 10:52:53 PM
quote:
Actually, neither one of us has gotten it right. Finger weight is what we're after, but drilling the thumb shallower won't do it. That'll add thumb weight. Drilling it deeper won't add thumb weight (as you said), it'll add finger weight (I think it was a typo on your part).

 


Shelly you are right here. When I agreed the first time, I guess I wasn't thinking.
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Brick
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: the pooh on July 02, 2006, 11:31:06 PM
Once you have chosen a ball,pin height(how far above your midline) will have the biggest effect on continuation.High pins create a shorter transition,more skid-snap like.Low pins create a longer transition,sort of like a long, even,curve.
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the pooh
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: dizzyfugu on July 03, 2006, 04:05:32 AM
quote:
Once you have chosen a ball,pin height(how far above your midline) will have the biggest effect on continuation.High pins create a shorter transition,more skid-snap like.Low pins create a longer transition,sort of like a long, even,curve.
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the pooh


Correct. Do not expect you ball to be very jumpy, pin distance has great effect. Me and a fried both have polished Traumas, mine is pin in, his is a strong pin out. You would not believe that these balls are basically the same, since mine makes a smooth, continous curve while my friend's is a snap monster.

With a pin in, you will probably end up with the pin under the fingers to keep it legal. Thumb/finger weight alterations, as well as a balance hole to decrease flare, will also help getting some more length out of the ball, but  surface prep is then most important.
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Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: charlest on July 06, 2006, 03:24:51 PM
quote:
High pins create a shorter transition,more skid-snap like


Say it  LOUDER!

quote:

.Low pins create a longer transition,sort of like a long, even,curve.
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the pooh


BUUUTTTT, the difference is hard to see for 99% of bowlers and most people will not have 2 identical balls to test and see what the difference is. 99.99999% of people just drill it above or below the pin and that's that.

Then there are 349 other factors which everyone proceeds to ignore ...
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: tjj300 on July 06, 2006, 04:19:02 PM
quote:
quote:
Actually, you should drill the thumb a little deeper than normal to add thumb weight.


Actually, neither one of us has gotten it right.  Finger weight is what we're after, but drilling the thumb shallower won't do it.  That'll add thumb weight.  Drilling it deeper won't add thumb weight (as you said), it'll add finger weight (I think it was a typo on your part).

SH


Correct. I intended to type finger weight. I guess it was a mental typo.


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The pacifist is as surely a traitor to his country and to humanity as is the most brutal wrongdoer.
--Theodore Roosevelt
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 10, 2006, 12:16:40 PM
quote:
most people will not have 2 identical balls to test and see what the difference is.


It was an example, a "for instance." I changed it to "If you could".... to be precise.
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Brick
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: tekneek on July 12, 2006, 11:46:39 AM
short pin of 2" drilled under the ring verses pin over the ring, overall distance of the pin placement being less than 2" the naked eye will pick up the difference in the length obtained. IMO I'd drill it pin under and adjust cover to give it more length. The info given was given to me by a highly respected company official in a R & D department.
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Steve
Leading Edge Pro Shop
512-755-2947
e-mail tekneek@281.com

www.dynothane.com

Capt Ramius "Vasili, give me one ping, and one ping only"
Title: Re: Pin Positions
Post by: kmanestor22 on July 14, 2006, 03:13:52 PM
If the balls are "identical" then the one with the pin under the bridge will have the CG lower than the other giving it more thumb weight or less finger weight and cause it to roll earlier.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer