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Author Topic: Pin to midline distance  (Read 7504 times)

boondoggle

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Pin to midline distance
« on: April 12, 2005, 05:47:44 PM »
What effect does pin to midline distance have on ball reactions when drilling a bowling ball?

Edited on 4/19/2005 11:38 AM
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charlest

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2005, 06:38:49 AM »
(As far as I know: )
The higher you move the pin the higher you make the drilled RG of the ball and the longer the ball will go down the lane before it starts to hook. Keep in mind that this added length is ONLY in comparison to the same ball drilled with a lower pin. (As an aside, the higher the pin's position, in general, the higher the flare's bowtie position will be. That's why a high track person needs a higher pin position - so that flare does not clip the middle finger, when the track begins to flare.)

Edited on 4/13/2005 6:33 AM
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2005, 06:43:59 AM »
that's how I understand it too.........

however.......FOR INSTANCE....a 3 inch pin to pap distance, whether it be up or down will still flare the same amount,...it's just done w/ the core in a slightly different position......
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JEFF
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T-GOD

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2005, 08:16:56 AM »
quote:
The higher you move the pin the higher you make the drilled RG of the ball
quote:
a 3 inch pin to pap distance, whether it be up or down will still flare the same amount
If the pin is the same distance from the PAP, whether it be up or down, how does the higher pin to the grip center, have a higher RG, vs the lower pin..? =:^D
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2005, 02:06:01 PM »
quote:
If the pin is the same distance from the PAP, whether it be up or down, how does the higher pin to the grip center, have a higher RG, vs the lower pin..? =:^D


pin down , when drilling you'd be shortening the core, thus lowering RG,...pin up, you'd be drilling into the side of the core maintaining height/rg of the core......in general of course.....
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JEFF
"I don't want to be a butt-inski, but what exactly is going on here ?"


Edited on 4/13/2005 2:06 PM
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T-GOD

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2005, 08:44:59 PM »
If the pin is the same distance from the PAP, no matter where it is on the ball, the RG will remain the same.

The only time the RG changes is when the distance of the pin to PAP changes.

When it's closer to the PAP, the RG is lowered.

When the pin is farther from the PAP, the RG is raised.

If the pin is the same distance from the PAP, but higher above the midline in one and lower in the other, the RG is the same. =:^D
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stanski

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2005, 12:51:34 AM »
quote:
quote:
 If the pin is the same distance from the PAP, no matter where it is on the ball, the RG will remain the same.

The only time the RG changes is when the distance of the pin to PAP changes.

When it's closer to the PAP, the RG is lowered.

When the pin is farther from the PAP, the RG is raised.

If the pin is the same distance from the PAP, but higher above the midline in one and lower in the other, the RG is the same. =:^D


so when you drill a hole in the ball, the RG does not change???

do tell...
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kotm

"awaiting the hour of reprisal, your time slips away..."


o god... not another t-god moment... so are we still hand cranking drills over there t-god?
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BackToBasics

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2005, 02:21:41 PM »
quote:
How do you think the ball gets a diff. factor?
The highest Rg in the ball is when the core is standing up.
The lowest Rg in the ball is when the core is down (pin on PAP)
So, by doing that ie a ball with a 2.5 high rg and a 2.48 low
Rg, the differential is .02... 2.5 when the pin is 6 3/4" from PAP,
2.48 when pin is on PAP.


One thing you fail to mention is that these values are without holes.  Once the holes are drilled, the angle (i.e how far above the midline) and resulting mass removal changes the RGs and differentials.
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Anthony Chapman
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Turbo Grips 2-N-1 Staff

Edited on 4/14/2005 2:19 PM
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2005, 02:32:37 PM »
yes Anthony....thanks.........
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JEFF
"I don't want to be a butt-inski, but what exactly is going on here ?"
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laufaye

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2005, 03:03:34 PM »
I like this topic, keep it going.

I will think deeply tonite and let you guys know my thought.
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Laufaye
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laufaye

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2005, 03:08:01 AM »
Agreed with Anthony.
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Laufaye
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T-GOD

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2005, 08:04:37 AM »
quote:
The only time the RG changes is when the distance of the pin to PAP changes.  
Guys, you're taking my statements out of context. Yes, we all know that when you drill holes in a ball the RG changes.

But, my statement was in regards to talking about the core position differences, referring to charlest's comment on pin positions relative to the midline. It had nothing to do with drilling of holes in the ball.

Also, you can place the pin, above or below the midline, so as not to hit the core, so we'll leave those comments about hitting the core out of the equation.

So, back to my statement, with regards to placing the pin higher up or lower, relative to the midline, leaving drilling the holes out of the equation.

If the pin is higher up above the midline vs. below the midline, but both positions are the same distance from your PAP, the RG remains the same.

There, that's my statement. Now you can debate, argue, call me names or whatever, if you want to. But be careful, you will get slapped around..!!

Sorry for the confusion in my original post. =:^D
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BackToBasics

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2005, 09:28:23 AM »
I thought the original question was
quote:
What effect does pin to midline distance have on ball reactions when drilling a bowling ball?


So why even mention anything about a ball with no holes....
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Anthony Chapman
Track International Staff
Turbo Grips 2-N-1 Staff
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stanski

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2005, 12:01:38 AM »
quote:
Okay...you were misunderstood...but still wrong either way....

RG is not flare potential, or the stability of the core.  It is the radius of gyration....or how center-heavy the ball is.  This being said, what difference does pin to PAP distance have on the core?  All it does is place the core in a position to rotate.

A ball with an RG of 2.50 is going to have that exact RG whether it's a pin axis drill or a 5 1/2 inch pin......until the holes show up.

Drilling holes in a ball changes it's dynamics.....period

If you put the pin on your midline, you are placing three holes near the top of the core, thus pushing weight towards the center.  When you put the pin above the fingers, you're placing three holes in the center of the core, thus pushing the weight towards the outside of it.

This being said the closer to the midline the pin is...the lower the RG of the ball overall.  The higher the pin, the higher the RG.

This is the same concept as weight holes, which can be used to shape the core also.
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If you're under 25 and vote republican, you have no heart.  If you are over 30 and vote democrat, you have no brain.


This is correct. However, I wonder if T-God can look at this and actually read what you are saying here, without the images of "Lane 1 basher, must no nothing" showing up.
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stanski
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charlest

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Re: Pin to midline distance
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2005, 07:11:33 AM »
Odd "conversation".

The question was with regards to moving the pin up and down when DRILLING the ball. This unequivocably necessitates drilled holes. My reply did say that the DRILLED RG was different, higher with the higher pin placement.


At this point in time, I will also add that the higher pin position also results in a quicker transition from skid-to-hook-to-roll, as compared to the lower pin position, and may be a little to a lot more difficult to control.
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