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General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: skbowl800 on September 27, 2009, 11:45:19 AM

Title: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: skbowl800 on September 27, 2009, 11:45:19 AM
For a right handed bowler, what type of reaction would this type of drilling create?
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Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: J_Mac on September 27, 2009, 07:55:13 PM
Depends on if the bowler is a stroker, tweener, or a cranker.

It would also depend on their PAP, axis tilt and axis rotation.
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If you were both cross-eyed and dyslexic, would you see okay?
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: skbowl800 on September 27, 2009, 08:07:38 PM
ok, well, power tweener
380 revs
50 deg rotation
tilt-not sure but I track high and right around the center of the ball
pap is 5 3/4 over 0 up
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www.badrap.org
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: walterrayseggs on September 27, 2009, 10:27:45 PM
Depending on the ball, it may do nothing and flare backwards. That's awful close to tracking right over the pin. I had a Gravity Shift do that. It's awesome turning a ball into a paper weight.
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: skbowl800 on September 28, 2009, 05:48:30 PM
I was just wondering cuz I remember seeing a few pros use something like this a few years back.
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www.badrap.org
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: johns811 on September 28, 2009, 05:56:55 PM
I've got a storm Sure Fire drilled like that. Balls works well for me trying to play down and in. I think it might flare backwards because something it hits the thumb hole. The ball was used and free. I would never drill a new ball like that.
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: skbowl800 on September 28, 2009, 06:14:30 PM
So what do you guys mean by flaring backwards?  I have never seen this before.
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www.badrap.org
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: AdrianS on September 29, 2009, 07:34:53 AM
Pin has to be more than 6 3/4 away from pap for that doesnt it?
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Time for some REAL bowling!!!
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: Mike Austin on October 01, 2009, 12:12:57 AM
I have a number of balls drilled like this.  For me, to get a Pin to PAP of 5 or 5/12, the pin will be left of my middle finger, this distance gets me very easy length.

Putting the pin under the fingers will make the ball change direction slower down lane.  I have a Fury Pearl drilled like this, CG is in the positive/thumb quadrant with a low X hole.  Still in box dullish, nice length, but a smooth, lazy arc on the back end.  Works great on fresh Cheetah, used it on broken down Scorpion this summer, playing between 4th and 5th arrow, but tight around 3rd arrow down lane.  Good hitting power, at least for me.

Same idea as pin on your grip line under the fingers, but just more length as the pin is farther from the PAP.

Your mileage may vary...
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Storm
Brunswick
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: kidlost2000 on October 11, 2009, 01:48:55 AM
Your looking at a 6-6.5" pin to PAP. That will create maximum length and for bowlers with hand a strong backend reaction.

You can keep the cg in the palm or if it is a longer pin kick the cg out and put the weight hole as needed probably somewhere just right of the thumb.(depending on the ball)

For many bowlers the ball will do not do much because they can't get it to turn over. If you can get it to turnover many times it will hook extremely strong on the backends. I've had problems with many bowling balls being too strong and uncontrollable on the backends with this pattern.

It's still used by a lot of pros today including Chris Barnes. Usually pin above or below the middle finger.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: Buzzhead on October 11, 2009, 03:42:59 PM
I have an Emerald buzzsaw with this exact layout on it, and if it kills snappiness I am deathly afraid to see a strong drilled emerald on the lanes.....
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Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: kmanestor22 on October 12, 2009, 06:55:34 AM
quote:
Your looking at a 6-6.5" pin to PAP. That will create maximum length and for bowlers with hand a strong backend reaction.

You can keep the cg in the palm or if it is a longer pin kick the cg out and put the weight hole as needed probably somewhere just right of the thumb.(depending on the ball)

For many bowlers the ball will do not do much because they can't get it to turn over. If you can get it to turnover many times it will hook extremely strong on the backends. I've had problems with many bowling balls being too strong and uncontrollable on the backends with this pattern.

It's still used by a lot of pros today including Chris Barnes. Usually pin above or below the middle finger.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "


I disagree with the strong backend reaction part.  My experience with this drilling is actually an earlier roll (compared to pin over middle finger)with a very tame backend.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: justink on October 12, 2009, 02:48:48 PM
I have one ball that I had drilled with the pin and cg stacked in the palm and I would have to agree with kmanestor22. This has created a VERY rolly ball with little or no reaction in the backend, since drilling it this way I haven't done much with it. Maybe I'll take it to league to night and play with it. I personally would never do this to a ball again, just did not do what I wanted it to.
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"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men."
-Gene Wilder
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: kmanestor22 on October 12, 2009, 03:06:03 PM
Don't get me wrong.  This is great to have when lanes are dry or on a sport pattern where everything else is over-reacting.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: Bluff on October 12, 2009, 03:20:11 PM
you got a right handed ball with a kwel layout
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"A man with no skills can be taught. A man with no honor, has nothing."
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: dizzyfugu on October 14, 2009, 02:39:10 AM
It is (with your PAP) a very tame layout. Little overall hook, smooth breakpoint, mellow reaction. Something for ridden/drier lanes - probably similar to a pin-axis layout, just without the early rolling tendency and slightly delayed hook.
Just make sure the pin is not too close, in or even beyond yout track, because of the danger of flaring backwards, as mentioned before.

A friend of mine had a Power Groove laid out this way (for late games), and it did almost nothing - as intended. But he did not like this very weak reaction (despite the fact, that the ball was quite effective in late games - but it showed no big hook, so it was "bad"...), so the ball got plugged.
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Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: kidlost2000 on October 14, 2009, 03:33:59 AM
quote:
quote:
Your looking at a 6-6.5" pin to PAP. That will create maximum length and for bowlers with hand a strong backend reaction.

You can keep the cg in the palm or if it is a longer pin kick the cg out and put the weight hole as needed probably somewhere just right of the thumb.(depending on the ball)

For many bowlers the ball will do not do much because they can't get it to turn over. If you can get it to turnover many times it will hook extremely strong on the backends. I've had problems with many bowling balls being too strong and uncontrollable on the backends with this pattern.

It's still used by a lot of pros today including Chris Barnes. Usually pin above or below the middle finger.
--------------------
" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "


I disagree with the strong backend reaction part.  My experience with this drilling is actually an earlier roll (compared to pin over middle finger)with a very tame backend.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer




It may depend on the ball and how you throw it. I have had many pearls with this drilling that go left on the backend and never stop hooking. Solids usually have a little less snap but still turn left and hook hard.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: ranAAchan on October 22, 2009, 01:30:22 AM
close enough?
http://rotogrip.com/bowling-news/story.asp?enewsid=4208
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 22, 2009, 04:37:59 AM
It doesn't seem like Wes it is a high tracker though and I bet the pin to PAP on this drilling is shorter for him....just guessing...like 5 1/2 pin to pap.

I'm sure someone on here knows more exactly.  Not a doubt about that....

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: FrontTwelv on October 22, 2009, 08:01:52 AM
quote:
Depending on the ball, it may do nothing and flare backwards. That's awful close to tracking right over the pin. I had a Gravity Shift do that. It's awesome turning a ball into a paper weight.


BINGO!!!!!!!!
with his PAP it prob is close to 6" +.  the pin doesn't have to be 6 3/4 or more from PAP to flare backwards.  PLUS your release isn't the same everytime so if one shot he/she 'twirls' one then the PAP would be closer and visa-versa when they right up the back with little tilt.

try keeping the pin b/w 5 1/2 - 5 3/4 away to protect no flare or back-flare.
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH
Title: Re: Pin under and to the left of the middle finger
Post by: Blinded on October 26, 2009, 03:36:50 AM
For Wes that pattern is somewhere in between 5 and 5.5 inches pin to PAP. Wes seems to have a lot of his pearls drilled at that distance.

Much different from the layout the OP is describing.