Author Topic: plugging balance hole (Read 17131 times)

JohnN · « **on:** January 06, 2019, 04:15:16 PM »

I have 3 balls with balance holes. All are located about 3" to the left and slightly below ring finger (lefty). All were put in to meet old balance requirements. Will plugging change ball reaction ?

Juggernaut · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2019, 09:02:41 AM »

Not much help, but the honest answer is, maybe.

If they are on your positive axis point (pap), it wonâ€™t change it very much at all. SOME yes, but not really much.

Otherwise, then yes, it can have some effect on the balls reaction. How much depends on several factors. (Ball weight, hole size, hole depth, hole placement, yada yada yada....)

The rule isnâ€™t going to effect anyoneâ€™s equipment until August 2020. If your ball has a balance hole, and meets current static weight rules, you donâ€™t have anything to worry about until then.

As long as you fix the problem, or replace the ball, by then, it wonâ€™t even be an issue.

BowlingForDonuts · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2019, 10:07:03 AM »

Quote from: JohnN on January 06, 2019, 04:15:16 PM

I have 3 balls with balance holes. All are located about 3" to the left and slightly below ring finger (lefty). All were put in to meet old balance requirements. Will plugging change ball reaction ?

I plugged a half dozen mostly double thumb holes and either it had no effect or in a few cases ball reaction seems if anything a little better. Most of those balls were already drilled very strong where P4 balance holes has less affect. I think style and skill level also are variables. YMMV.

dmonroe814 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2019, 12:32:35 PM »

I believe it was Storm that did a study on this a few months ago. They drilled up 3 different types of balls. 3 with and 3 without balance holes. Same drill on each one. in two cases, the plugged hole balls carried better an in one the balance hole carried better. As someone said earlier, there was little to no difference. I am sure that if you expect a difference, you will see it. On a house shot, I expect almost no diff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9zahj7etws&t=93s

JohnN · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2019, 12:39:19 PM »

Yes, since the holes were put in to meet rule requirements and not improve performance was just wondering if plugging might help performance. Probably wonâ€™t be using them a year from now .

dmonroe814 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2019, 12:43:41 PM »

Quote from: JohnN on January 07, 2019, 12:39:19 PM

Yes, since the holes were put in to meet rule requirements and not improve performance was just wondering if plugging might help performance. Probably wonâ€™t be using them a year from now .

The answer is a definite maybe.

BrunsNick · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2019, 01:52:17 PM »

https://youtu.be/rOOZdetR2Fs?t=1930

Yes, it matters. Here's a segment of Mo's seminar testing PSA and ball reaction samples.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2019, 09:35:34 PM »

Id rather see it with throwbot then Ryan.

Just like him saying pin down layouts lower core numbers and to bring your spare ballâ€¦â€¦ yet your throwbot videos show in most cases pin up and pin down track on top of each other. So much that it appears you keep changing the pin to pap differences as the videos progress. From 4.5" vs 4.5" to now keeping the pin up at 4.5" and changing the pin down to 5" and now 5.25" in your comparisons.

BowlingForDonuts · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2019, 09:49:15 PM »

Mo knows his stuff but when it comes to bowling ball physics I tend to turn more towards Bill Sempsrott as he isn't trying to sell me balls. Paywall but TL;DR -

"The key point here is to understand that there is a very non-linear relationship between track flare and ball motion. In other words, an extra inch of track flare doesnâ€™t always produce the same effect in terms of on-lane motion."

In other words where the flare is on that chart before and after balance hole matters a whole lot (and vice versa for plugging ("in general, plugging the balance hole returns the ball to almost exactly the same mass properties that it had prior to drilling the balance hole to begin with.")).

https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/bowling-ball-balance-hole-fundamentals/

https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/life-after-balance-holes/

https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/the-effect-of-plugging-and-redrilling-on-bowling-ball-mass-properties/

BrunsNick · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2019, 12:40:43 AM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on January 07, 2019, 09:35:34 PM

Id rather see it with throwbot then Ryan.

Just like him saying pin down layouts lower core numbers and to bring your spare ballâ€¦â€¦ yet your throwbot videos show in most cases pin up and pin down track on top of each other. So much that it appears you keep changing the pin to pap differences as the videos progress. From 4.5" vs 4.5" to now keeping the pin up at 4.5" and changing the pin down to 5" and now 5.25" in your comparisons.

The drill sheets have changed over time, especially now with the rule changes.

And yes, on a fresh house condition, some balls will be pretty close pin up vs down. The difference typically takes effect when the ball continues through the pins. Stronger balls with the pin down for the lower rev players are typically showing pin down balls continue a little better because it is able to retain axis rotation longer. If a ball rolls forward, it will not make for good carry percentage.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2019, 11:36:56 AM »

Quote from: BrunsNick on January 08, 2019, 12:40:43 AM

Quote from: ignitebowling on January 07, 2019, 09:35:34 PM
Id rather see it with throwbot then Ryan.

Just like him saying pin down layouts lower core numbers and to bring your spare ballâ€¦â€¦ yet your throwbot videos show in most cases pin up and pin down track on top of each other. So much that it appears you keep changing the pin to pap differences as the videos progress. From 4.5" vs 4.5" to now keeping the pin up at 4.5" and changing the pin down to 5" and now 5.25" in your comparisons.

The drill sheets have changed over time, especially now with the rule changes.

And yes, on a fresh house condition, some balls will be pretty close pin up vs down. The difference typically takes effect when the ball continues through the pins. Stronger balls with the pin down for the lower rev players are typically showing pin down balls continue a little better because it is able to retain axis rotation longer. If a ball rolls forward, it will not make for good carry percentage.

What has changed on drilling that wasn't doable before? Other then soon not being able to use a weight hole if needed for adjusting ball reaction.

So the reason for changing the pin to pap distances in the videos for pin up and down was to show a difference on the lane you weren't seeing before with keeping the pin to pap the same of close to the same? So now with a 3/4" difference in pin to pap we have a difference in pin up vs pin down?

imagonman · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2019, 11:58:47 AM »

So how many times does this make that MO has said one thing & then later done an about face on it? I've lost count...â€¦â€¦â€¦.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2019, 01:04:25 PM »

Quote from: imagonman on January 08, 2019, 11:58:47 AM

So how many times does this make that MO has said one thing & then later done an about face on it? I've lost count...â€¦â€¦â€¦.

Mo is a really really really smart guy...............
WHO SELLS BOWLING BALLS!

He does lots of work, and lots of studies, on what makes a bowling ball do what it does....
SO HE CAN SELL US MORE BOWLING BALLS!

Having USBC change a bunch of rules was golden for him because.......
HE CAN NOW SELL US A NEW BUNCH OF BOWLING BALLS!

Mo is smart, but first and foremost, he is a business man. He will use any and ALL techniques available to him to convince us to buy things from him.

When he could â€œcircumventâ€ the spec limits intended by USBC by utilizing advanced drilling techniques including weight holes, he did so in order to SELL MORE BOWLING BALLS!

Now, using advanced core designs, he will still be able to create enhanced equipment reactions by developing drillingâ€™s for those advanced core designs that do not need weight holes.

Remember how advanced, and strong, some of those Mo-Rich cores were?
Didnâ€™t really need an extra hole on some of those things.

Mo may be a â€œmad scientistâ€, but there is usually a method to the madness, and if he thinks it will sell more bowling balls, you can bet thatâ€™s what heâ€™ll do.

BrunsNick · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2019, 01:06:57 PM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on January 08, 2019, 11:36:56 AM

Quote from: BrunsNick on January 08, 2019, 12:40:43 AM
Quote from: ignitebowling on January 07, 2019, 09:35:34 PM
Id rather see it with throwbot then Ryan.

Just like him saying pin down layouts lower core numbers and to bring your spare ballâ€¦â€¦ yet your throwbot videos show in most cases pin up and pin down track on top of each other. So much that it appears you keep changing the pin to pap differences as the videos progress. From 4.5" vs 4.5" to now keeping the pin up at 4.5" and changing the pin down to 5" and now 5.25" in your comparisons.

The drill sheets have changed over time, especially now with the rule changes.

And yes, on a fresh house condition, some balls will be pretty close pin up vs down. The difference typically takes effect when the ball continues through the pins. Stronger balls with the pin down for the lower rev players are typically showing pin down balls continue a little better because it is able to retain axis rotation longer. If a ball rolls forward, it will not make for good carry percentage.

What has changed on drilling that wasn't doable before? Other then soon not being able to use a weight hole if needed for adjusting ball reaction.

So the reason for changing the pin to pap distances in the videos for pin up and down was to show a difference on the lane you weren't seeing before with keeping the pin to pap the same of close to the same? So now with a 3/4" difference in pin to pap we have a difference in pin up vs pin down?

The drilling sheets were fairly vague in the past, based more on the Brunswick sheets. For symmetrical, drill 3-5" from PAP either pin up or down. Went pretty typical with 4.5 up and 4.5 down to keep it simple.

The asym sheets were a little more specific, with 50x4.5x40 being the typical pin up and 70x5x75 being the pin down.

As the sheets developed taking into account no balance hole rules, the symmetrical layouts on the sheet showed the 5.25 layout you're mentioning. The Squatch was the first symmetric following the drill sheet more specifically. Chose to keep the Sizzle the same, since that was how we did every symmetric ball in the past. If we ever needed to do a comparison video between balls, it was easy to test them against eachother to make sure our performance targets were where they needed to be.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2019, 03:08:49 PM »

That makes more sense. Thank you

Author Topic: plugging balance hole (Read 17131 times)

JohnN

plugging balance hole

Juggernaut

Re: plugging balance hole

BowlingForDonuts

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dmonroe814

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JohnN

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dmonroe814

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BrunsNick

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ignitebowling

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BowlingForDonuts

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BrunsNick

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ignitebowling

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imagonman

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Juggernaut

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BrunsNick

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ignitebowling

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