BallReviews

General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: Stever5000 on March 13, 2010, 02:52:32 PM

Title: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: Stever5000 on March 13, 2010, 02:52:32 PM: I was in the pro shop the other night setting up my second 505A. There were a few other guys in there, one being the pro shop owner. A fellow bowler came up to me and asked me what I was doing. So, I explained to him a summary of the dual angle layout and what it can do, and he seemed pretty interested. The pro shop owner added his $.02 at the end of my explanation, saying, "You know, Steve, that MoRich layout stuff only works on MoRich and Track balls, since they're the only balls where the mass bias is significant." I said back to him, "Actually, the dual angle layout will work with any ball from any manufacturer." So he walked over to me and looked at the layout I had on the ball. He said, "If I were you, I'd put the pin about an inch and a half right of the ring finger, and the cg in your palm." I said back to him, "I'm not going to put the pin there, because that's about a half-inch away from my PAP, and I'm looking for something more aggressive." He shrugged his shoulders and said, "Well, I can't tell you how to lay out your ball, but if you drill it the way I suggested, it'll go real long with a huge snap on the backend."

So a pin-axis drilling is long and strong now. Oh, and Dual Angle only works on MoRich and Track balls. Any questions?
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: hammermike2000 on March 13, 2010, 11:02:30 PM: Lol. Old-school "logic" with no actual knowledge to back it up. Sweet!
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The Right Approach Pro Shop, Charlotte, NC
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: willypbowler1 on March 13, 2010, 11:03:44 PM: I have one, why do you let someone like that drill your stuff? haha..I'm sure from the sound of things if there was another Pro Shop as a choice you wouldn't be returning to this guy lol. If i were you i would take his advice about him not being able to tell you how to drill your stuff. continue to drill the stuff how you want, and that solves that!
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Kenny Hynes
William Paterson University Bowling Team
Sponsored by STORM Bowling

In the bag...

Invasion
Dimension
Virtual Energy
Hy-Road
Fast
Rapid Fire
ICE Storm
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: Miffy1980 on March 14, 2010, 08:08:04 AM: gosh.. another ouiji board layout technique driller. The shop that i am going to get my next ball sounds like yours. but i dont care, im going to tell him to let me layout my way, its going to be my first attempt at dual angle layout.

i really had a hard time stopping my eye balls from rolling backwards when he said "i can give u an agressive reaction if i put the pin here and mass bias there .. blah blah blah.."

its not really hard to understand that pin position is relative to the bowlers PAP.

come on, who else has this problem. im really interested to know how many such "pros" are out there.
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: leftyinsnellville on March 14, 2010, 08:33:32 AM: Before I used Mo's dual angle layout most of my drillings were fairly generic and a little hit and miss. Pin up or pin down...cg weak, stacked, or kicked...mb weak, strong, or somewhere in between. I understood the concepts, but was never very confident that the layout I had chosen was going to give me the results I desired.

Since I've started using dual angle, I have been getting exactly what I intend. I've even been able to set up a few specialty balls for short and long patterns.

Now if I could just learn how to hit a mark consistently, I'd be ready for anything!
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I wanna be a house hack when I grow up.

http://averagebowlersballreviews.com/
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: Stever5000 on March 14, 2010, 02:18:15 PM: quote:
I have one, why do you let someone like that drill your stuff? haha..I'm sure from the sound of things if there was another Pro Shop as a choice you wouldn't be returning to this guy lol. If i were you i would take his advice about him not being able to tell you how to drill your stuff. continue to drill the stuff how you want, and that solves that!
--------------------
Kenny Hynes
William Paterson University Bowling Team
Sponsored by STORM Bowling

In the bag...

Invasion
Dimension
Virtual Energy
Hy-Road
Fast
Rapid Fire
ICE Storm

I pay him to let me drill it. I usually give him about $20 to $30 for pro shop time, plus grips and a slug. I do not let him or the other co-owner drill my stuff after I started learning how to drill my own. I would love to go to a real "pro" shop some time.
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: LotsaBalls on March 14, 2010, 09:11:16 PM: The shop I use to frequent has an owner like this. I actually worked there for a while and when the costumers started asking for me he didn't like it at all. Shortly after that I purchased my own equipment and started drilling out of my house. He will not speak to me at all anymore, which is sad because we were pretty good friends for about 15 years. He was all about the money and didn't care about costumer service anymore, just slam holes in it any take there money. I dont drill a ton of bowling balls but I have never had a complaint and they always do what they wanted them to do. The worst of it is there are 3 proshops in my area and they are all HACKS, there nice people but they dont have a clue when it comes to drilling a bowling ball.
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: Miffy1980 on March 15, 2010, 02:57:01 AM: hey lotsaballs, when you say you got your own equipment and drilling out from your house, so the drill equipment is what you find in a pro shop? Reason i am asking is i am exploring the idea of drilling my own stuff. Or is there a home version of drill press ? The pro shops i know off are very protective and i doubt i will be able to learn how to use a drill press from them. But im betting i might be able to learn that from the sellers of such machine and with a bit of trial and error on my own and ball review support i should be fine. May i have more intel and opinions on this please?
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: dizzyfugu on March 15, 2010, 03:32:07 AM: Sounds familiar. A teammate recently got a used Smokin' Inferno, and he wanted it for lighter conditions without lots of movement on the back end - as an alternative to his new Fast which was/is a beast for him, esp. on dry back ends. He plays pretty slow with good hand and a controlled swing, and like me often has issues with the ball moving too early and too much, esp. with league traffic.

Anyway, he had the ball with him last league start, and the battle against the ridden track area was on. So he pulled out his SI - and how had the pro shop set it up: with a 4" label drilling! He made 3 shots with the ball, and it was dead just behind the arrows, just rolling. He explained to me what he had expected from the ball (and its role), but the pro shop just ignored him and put on the standard no-brainer label setup, which can be found on 90% of this pro shop's balls. I do not get it - and also, why customers do not leave such "I know better than you" ball drillers? Waste of time, money and equipment...
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: Pinhammer on March 15, 2010, 11:08:29 AM: Stever come to TN we will take care of you.
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Roger Carroll
Pinnacle Pro Shop
Clarksville, TN
http://www.pinnaclebowl.com/ProShop/proshop_main.html
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: Stever5000 on March 15, 2010, 01:08:42 PM: quote:
Stever come to TN we will take care of you.
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Roger Carroll
Pinnacle Pro Shop
Clarksville, TN
http://www.pinnaclebowl.com/ProShop/proshop_main.html

Thats a long drive from eastern Indiana. I don't think I can justify that kinda trip just to drill some bowling balls. Plus, with a newborn baby, I'd probably get a nice punch to the kidneys for thinking about it.
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: stopncrank on March 15, 2010, 01:22:10 PM: the shop owner that drills my stuff is in his later 60's and uses the dual angle method on every ball he drills. who said you cant teach old dogs...
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: LotsaBalls on March 15, 2010, 02:28:03 PM: quote:
hey lotsaballs, when you say you got your own equipment and drilling out from your house, so the drill equipment is what you find in a pro shop? Reason i am asking is i am exploring the idea of drilling my own stuff. Or is there a home version of drill press ? The pro shops i know off are very protective and i doubt i will be able to learn how to use a drill press from them. But im betting i might be able to learn that from the sellers of such machine and with a bit of trial and error on my own and ball review support i should be fine. May i have more intel and opinions on this please?

You may have found it in a pro shop in 1985 but it works just fine still today. I dont have a whole lot of money tied up into it and its something I have wanted for for sometime.
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: JohnP on March 15, 2010, 03:09:38 PM: Stever -- Are you close to Tell City? If so and you would be interested I'd be glad to work with you, send me a PM. Innovative sells good drilling equipment and I'm sure they would be glad to work with you on training, a link to their entry level package is below, for other options look under drilling equipment on their site. If you're just drilling for yourself you could get by with just a few bits. -- JohnP

http://www.shop.innovativebowling.com/product.sc?productId=3&categoryId=82
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: Miffy1980 on March 15, 2010, 03:45:15 PM: Thanks John, i came across their vids on utube.

Looks really tempting. Hmm.. if i dont get married and dont have kids, I might be able to afford this luxury.
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: Stever5000 on March 15, 2010, 05:18:47 PM: quote:
Stever -- Are you close to Tell City? If so and you would be interested I'd be glad to work with you, send me a PM. Innovative sells good drilling equipment and I'm sure they would be glad to work with you on training, a link to their entry level package is below, for other options look under drilling equipment on their site. If you're just drilling for yourself you could get by with just a few bits. -- JohnP

http://www.shop.innovativebowling.com/product.sc?productId=3&categoryId=82

Tell City? That's borderline Kentucky, isn't it? I'm in Muncie.
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: JohnP on March 15, 2010, 09:40:55 PM: Tell City is about 70 miles down the Ohio River from Louisville, or about half way between Louisville and Evansville. Probably further than you would want to drive. Too bad. -- JohnP
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: Dave_in_Rio_Rancho on March 16, 2010, 11:10:44 AM: It is not the highest paying profession in the world. You get the dedicated, knowledgeable, lifetime bowler shop pros mixed in with the its a job, I can turn on the press, ball drillers. Once you are experienced enough to tell the difference, you will find a lot of scary stuff.

Then too, even the experienced shop pros will sometimes admit to giving the ball a "little extra" on the layout so that the customer won't stop using their shop because the ball "didn't hook" - LOL
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: dizzyfugu on March 17, 2010, 10:06:03 AM: quote:
Once you are experienced enough to tell the difference, you will find a lot of scary stuff.

Then too, even the experienced shop pros will sometimes admit to giving the ball a "little extra" on the layout so that the customer won't stop using their shop because the ball "didn't hook" - LOL

LOL - so true...!
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: triggerman on March 17, 2010, 10:10:04 AM: drive 1.5 north to fort wayne, we can take care of you

quote:
quote:
Stever -- Are you close to Tell City? If so and you would be interested I'd be glad to work with you, send me a PM. Innovative sells good drilling equipment and I'm sure they would be glad to work with you on training, a link to their entry level package is below, for other options look under drilling equipment on their site. If you're just drilling for yourself you could get by with just a few bits. -- JohnP

http://www.shop.innovativebowling.com/product.sc?productId=3&categoryId=82

Tell City? That's borderline Kentucky, isn't it? I'm in Muncie.

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www.bowlingballexchange.com

Triggerman

F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud

Lane #1 Baby
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: formosasproshop on March 17, 2010, 10:48:59 AM: This sounds oh so familiar.

We purchased the local pro shop 3 years ago. Been a bowler for 25+ years, had some knowledge of balls and layouts. But not to the extend to run a shop. So right off the bat we did the IBPSIA certification program. This gave us the knowledge we didn't have before hand.

The previous owner still owns a shop an hr away. He also bowls in a league in our house. He is constantly telling other bowlers that we don't have any idea what we are doing, when it comes to drilling a ball. See he is the old school driller. Been doing it for 20+ years and everything is pretty generic. He doesn't care about the customers PAP, uses 3 or 4 "staple" layouts and thats it. I would say 75% of balls he drills are cg in palm, pin out above/below ring finger.

So where does this not knowing how to drill come from? Well last year I went to one of Mo's training courses and learned all about dual angle layout techniques. I admit I am "newer" to the drilling game, when you consider guys drilling for 20-30 years. Figured learning everything possible, especially NEW techniques was the way to go. So now that I am using dual angle to lay out the balls, I don't know what I am doing?

LMAO, some old school guys need to get with the times. Personally seen a huge difference in reactions since switching to D/A.

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Ian Formosa
27 yrs Bowling Experience
Formosa's Pro Shop
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
Title: Re: Pro Shop Ignorance
Post by: fluff33 on March 18, 2010, 01:23:51 PM: quote:
quote:
Stever -- Are you close to Tell City? If so and you would be interested I'd be glad to work with you, send me a PM. Innovative sells good drilling equipment and I'm sure they would be glad to work with you on training, a link to their entry level package is below, for other options look under drilling equipment on their site. If you're just drilling for yourself you could get by with just a few bits. -- JohnP

http://www.shop.innovativebowling.com/product.sc?productId=3&categoryId=82

Tell City? That's borderline Kentucky, isn't it? I'm in Muncie.

If you do not mind driving to Fort Wayne, I would highly recommend Trace Chamberlin at Georgetown Bowl.