BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: joblo1978 on August 30, 2009, 04:09:25 PM
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I have a question for all drillers and anyone who has familiarity with this.
BTW, this is my first post, there's lots of good info on this site.
I've been bowling for a long time, my girlfriend has recently picked up the sport too. She's gotten in the 160 range a few times with not even a year of bowling, a basic power groove reactive and conventinal drilling. I'm sure she wants to get more involved with a better ball and I would like to see her throw a fingertip drilling. Only thing is is while drunk one night (before I met her) she was wrestling with her sister and got her ring finger stuck in a belt loop, twisted and broke it. She has very little use of the tip and just moving it is painful still. She doesn't think she could throw a finger tip ball but has also never had the chance.
What do you guys think? I don't think the axis could be done in a way on that finger so it wouldn't hurt her. I think if she tried to generate any kind of lift with that finger on a 14 lb ball that she currently throws would result in alot of pain for her. It also has a funny angle to that fingertip also. She does not have a very strong wrist and doesn't throw the ball with alot of authority or have a high rev rate or speed....yet.
What about drilling up a ball with just her middle finger and pinky?
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With a finger tip grip on only the middle finger, is she really going to gain any benefits from a fingertip grip at all? Will she gain more control or lift over the ball at all?
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The ball will be more balanced and supported with the wrist and hand. The finger tip middle finger will still provide some extra lifting action. Hooking a bowling ball isn't done with the fingers. It's a combination of mechanics and a solid release point flat spot along with the un-rolling of the wrist. The finger upward action is not required to hook a ball.
What you would be doing is letting the ball sit in your girlfriends hand alittle better and less strain on the wrist and hand. It will eliminate some of the excessive grab that a conventional grip can give bowlers, thus helping out the bad finger and the lack of wrist strength.
Well...maybe not required, but when I unload on my ball, my fingers drive through.
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How serious is the GF about the game? If she's more a recreational bowler that's participating to be with you, leave her in the conventional grip she's used to. Spend the money you would have spent trying new grips to get her some good coaching. -- JohnP
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Does it matter really?
She's a potential league bowler. And she's getting her coaching from me. I think with my 10 years plus of bowling and a high of 278/734 I'm qualified to coach her. I'm just not familiar with drilling a bowling ball around an injury and figured I would look here.
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Well this got off topic reall quick. A simple question about drill up a ball and my average, level of skill, scores, years of bowling, qualifications to flip a hamburger and alot of other things are now an issue. I don't really have to explain myself but I have an affinity for correcting people.
-My skill and average has nothing to do with being being a registered and licensed coach. Just because I am not licensed, doesn't mean I don't know the game and cannot properly assist others with their game. Just because someone has a drivers license, doesn't mean they can drive. I see this daily as I'm sure many of you do as well. Some of you may be terrible licensed drivers yourselves. This issue is mute in this topic. I am qualified and currently responsible for more than most people can fathom in my profession however.
-I have no need to bowl vicariously through her. She can do whatever she wants and I have considered this. She understands the benefit of a fintertip grip and is just unsure if she can physically do it or not. It's as simple as that. Why on a serious bowling site someone is discouraging another to roll fingterip I will never no. How many conventional grip bowlers are in here flaming me I would like to know? How about you guys drill another ball conventional and pay for some coaching? Does that make any sense to go backwards in your game? Unless you have hit a wall, I don't see why. We just want her to do the best she can and utilize every advantage. This is clearly one of them. And no, not everyone is a league prospect, she is though, mainly because she is learning quickly and has considered it strongly. Time is the only issue.
-And what is this rationale that a high score does not make you good? I would consider a high score an indication at succeeding at some thing.
Let's try and stay on topic now that I have cleared these things up for you guys.
My observation is simply this. She's getting good roll on the ball, however her speed is low, her ball doesn't grip the lane hard and she's lacking carry because of this. I think a higher performance ball is an option for her and would be really curious to see how she does with one that carries through the pocket. It makes sense in every way to get her rolling fingertip (if she can physically do it) as opposed to her wanting to do it later.
Thanks for the earlier replies, whoever you guys are, we'll look into it and explore getting her power groove plugged and redrilled fingertip on the middle finger.
If she wants too
Jeez!
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joblo1978
KWBOWLING846 is correct, maybe a little harsh about it, but correct. Bowling score has no relation to the ability to be a good coach/instructor. I know people that have numerous 300's and 800's and they would make horrible coaches. I also know people that are just average players that are certified USBC coaches and are excellent coaches. You see they have been properly trained to not only coach the fundamentals of the game but, to see the minor things that cause problems.
One of the most annoying things to me is when I hear someone say something like your problem is your pulling the ball. That's not coaching, that's noting and end result. A coach would be able to look farther back into the bowlers approach an recognize the problem area. They would then suggest solutions to correct the problem.
It's worth it to spend time with a certified coach. You could actually do more harm than good.
As far as layout you can try a the Sarge Easter grip. Some of todays great PBA player plyers are or have used it. Robert Smith, Mike Devaney, Michael Fagan.
Good luck and for your girlfreinds sake find her a coach.
KWBOWLING846 Very interesting obvservation about todays soft conditions and coaching! Could make for a great discussion topic.
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Rick Guined
Owner/Operator: New Millennium Proshop: http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff183/Guined/
Track Regional Staff Player
Vise PBA Regional Staff Player
IBPSIA Certified Technician
USBC Bronze Certified Instructor
www.trackbowling.com
Edited on 8/31/2009 11:28 AM
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You're exactly right. Stating you're "pulling the ball" does not help the bowler identify what was done wrong and what needs to be done to fix the problem.
My expalaining the fundamentals of bowling is in terms she can understand, followed by physical corrections she can make that have resulted in improvements.
Thanks for the concern.
Again can we stay on topic here?
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Chief among things to check would be whether the finger is still in the healing process. Her orthopedist can give that interpretation. And being someone who tried bowling through a broken hand because we were losing the PWBA, I can tell you that it is NOT something I would recommend for a beginning bowler (which is still where the G/F would be classified).
If it is the residual twinge that can occur with some fractures that have healed as much as they are going to, then a professional driller will be able to make informed decisions regarding pitch and span after measuring the hand in question...
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Good grief, I can't imagine why anyone would want to give you any advice...
And I'm wondering, if you're so qualified, how come you don't already know the answer to this question?
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That was funny.
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Joblo, as you have found out, posting here requires thick skin. If your post stays on the home page long enough, her broken finger will be Bush's or Obama's fault.
If her finger is as good as it will get, a good driller should be able to come up with a plan to allow her to bowl pain free or with as little pain as possible. You may have to try a few things to hit on the right one.
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whoever said size doesn't matter never had trouble with a thumbhole
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These forums have gone even further downhill in the last few months than they already were... hard to believe, I know. I wouldn't even bother asking questions here. Just go find a good driller in your area and ask him. You won't have to worry about getting smartass burger flipping comments from internet tough guys. This is exactly why I rarely frequently this place anymore. When you need an answer to something do like I do and just PM one of the guys on this site that is here to help people with bowling, not act tough, bash on the government, etc. I would PM Brunsnick about the Sarge drilling, he still uses it himself as far as I know.
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I guess so. Don't seem to be any moderators here. That's cool though.
Yes the finger is as good as it will get. Thanks for all the help.
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Joblo, as you have found out, posting here requires thick skin. If your post stays on the home page long enough, her broken finger will be Bush's or Obama's fault.
If her finger is as good as it will get, a good driller should be able to come up with a plan to allow her to bowl pain free or with as little pain as possible. You may have to try a few things to hit on the right one.
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whoever said size doesn't matter never had trouble with a thumbhole
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joblo1978...I would think you can have her try a Sarge Easter grip if her broken finger is as good as its going to get. Assuming that she can get into a conventional grip, I think she should be able to get into a Sarge Easter grip....but I would probably put about 1/2 to 3/4 reverse (away pitch from her palm) in her ring finger to help alleviate the pain.
I've never drilled a Sarge Easter grip myself...trying to remember what Robert Smiths specs were or Mike Devaney's but I would think it would help her create some revolutions.
I would also go to your driller and if he has a fitting ball, have her try it out, but with a ton of reverse (away pitch) in her ring finger and see how it feels with a finger tip grip in her ring finger...won't hurt to try it out on his stuff. Maybe also try a wrist brace for her as well (don't know if you said that in all these replys so I appologize if you said she does) that might give her support and take some stress off her finger.
All you can do is experiment now with her grip and try a couple things.
Good luck
Ebo4ever
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Jarrett Roseboom
Ebonite fan
pics of my equipment
http://s638.photobucket.com/albums/uu109/jarrettcr/My%20Bowling%20Equipment/
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Why don't you 3 just open up your own thread and bicker on that instead of banging your heads against the wall on the this one and everyone elses? Just a suggestion, don't get too tough about it, thanks.
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joblo1978 -- I did not mean to offend you with my response or pull the thread off topic. And I still feel I gave you good advice. I won't go into my qualifications to give that advice.
And to the kids that have made this topic a joke -- SHUT UP! -- JohnP
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joblo,
In the past, I have used a sarge easter grip due to a lump on my top knuckle of my ring finger, which seems where the injury basically is left. In my experience, it helped tons. I still got very nice lift/revs on the ball and even shot my first 300/804 using the grip (FIGJAM, sorry haha). Just saying, though. It's not a bad grip and I think she has a good chance with it. The grip itself only takes a little getting used to, that's all.
Hope this helps!
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- Brian
http://BeansProShop.com
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I broke my ring finger at the first joint on my bowling hand about a year or so ago. I kept on bowling, but was only using my middle finger and thumb in the holes, and my ring finger in a metal splint. I did pretty good, bowling a number of games in the 220-230's, and for the time, pretty consistant in being in and around 200.
As my finger healed, I talked to my ball driller friend about the Sarge Easter grip, so he converted one of my balls for me to try it out. I tried it and hated it. It actually made my finger sore all over again, because the finger was deeper in the hole and would get tweaked on the way out.
What I had my driller do was, while still keeping a finger tip grip, I had him plug the ring finger hold and drop it down about a 1/4", and this did the trick! It was more relaxed in the hole (because I had difficulty making my finger straight) and was not getting hung up, causing more pain or re-injury.
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quote:
I broke my ring finger at the first joint on my bowling hand about a year or so ago. I kept on bowling, but was only using my middle finger and thumb in the holes, and my ring finger in a metal splint. I did pretty good, bowling a number of games in the 220-230's, and for the time, pretty consistant in being in and around 200.
As my finger healed, I talked to my ball driller friend about the Sarge Easter grip, so he converted one of my balls for me to try it out. I tried it and hated it. It actually made my finger sore all over again, because the finger was deeper in the hole and would get tweaked on the way out.
What I had my driller do was, while still keeping a finger tip grip, I had him plug the ring finger hold and drop it down about a 1/4", and this did the trick! It was more relaxed in the hole (because I had difficulty making my finger straight) and was not getting hung up, causing more pain or re-injury.
That's good to know. Thing is that she's already bowling a conventional grip and she's doing fine. We'll give the sarge a shot.
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Here's a link to some very good information on the Sarge Easter grip. -- JohnP
http://www.brunsnick.com/sarge_easter_grip.html
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Thank you!
I've never had a broken bone before, but I guess they never heal good as new.
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Hey, two-post noob with the pissy attitude like he's somebody - Here's a solution for you: Get lost if you're going to join a forum, make two posts and have a moronic comment in both of them.
Do you have issues with your reading and comprehension skills? The OP has clearly stated that his girlfriend's finger is as good as it is going to get and that she broke it BEFORE she met him. That means the finger has already healed and will not heal any further, resulting in permanent damage and loss of full range of motion.
"Take time off until its healed!!!" is not the solution. You leaving the forum and taking your attitude elsewhere, however, may be a start.
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Okay simple solution. Take time off until its healed!!!
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an mor ceathair ta puisÃn
RIP ThongPrincess
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come on man. The only friend he has is the other tag team champ. I bet he steals one from youtube.
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I'm still waiting for you to post a video of yourself, i mean your friend 4pin.
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<insert something funny here>
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hold my hammer, while i NAIL your girlfriend.