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Author Topic: Re-drill or sell it?  (Read 5818 times)

lefty50

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Re-drill or sell it?
« on: August 20, 2015, 12:52:15 PM »
Constructive feedback appreciated. I'm trying to make a decision whether I want to sell or re-drill my Radical Guru.
 In
Left handIned
Rev = 250
Rotation 55 degrees plus
Tilt.. From memory, 13 degrees. Drawing a blank right now on that for some reason...

I drilled the Guru for Nationals with pin just above ring finger and MB just barely left of the thumb. Horrible matchup, worst I've done in 25 years and easily the worst ball choice I've ever made for Nats. I know they were tough this year, but..... That was not what I expected based on what I've heard about the ball and recommendations I received on Bowlingchat.
I brought the ball home with absolutely no confidence that it would perform better on a summer pattern shot based on what I saw at Nats. It did not let me down. Total spare ball on both a 38 and 45 ft pattern. Then one night, on a short 38 ft pattern, I used it for the first half of game one, then had put it away because it was still going straight. For whatever reason, we had the last game well in hand and I pulled it back out for the last four frames of game four. To my utter surprise, the ball actually made a move about 4 feet in front of the pins. That was the last thing I expected if the ball was burning up early.... Turning at 50 feet on a 38 foot pattern at the end of the night? hmm...

Looking for feedback. Sell it or re-drill it? I don't understand the reaction I'm seeing from this ball... You know I hate asymmetrics, but even so.... That last piece just doesn't fit the puzzle...

Raptor P7 drilled similarly was ok. Not great, but better. AMF Darkness with Mohole and cg swung at 45 (pin up) was the best. Darkness was also at Nats and was better than Guru.
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Steven

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2015, 02:05:23 PM »
It's hard to know where to start with this one. I want to keep my input as constructive as possible, but I personally would have not taken my Guru to Nationals. It's a true heavy oil ball, and I don't take mine anywhere for patterns much less than 50'. I had great success with mine on 52' Badger, but overall, I've struggled with the Guru on medium length patterns. For me it just doesn't transition well with a lot of friction left on the lane.
 
But to your question… My personal experience has been if I hate a ball with the initial drill, I usually still hate it after a plug and re-drill. Maybe you'll get more flip if you kick the MB a few inches further left. But if you hate assymetrics anyway, why go through the bother and expense? I'd sell it and clear my mind of the bad experience. But that's just me.
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lefty50

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2015, 02:22:42 PM »
I'm leaning that same direction steven. It will be a loss on my part for sure, but better than to fight with it. The only issue is it's so bad and I've heard such good things, I keep thinking I'm missing something. Thought it would be perfect at Nats with my low rev style, but that was totally wrong. Appreciate the input.
Other thoughts?
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JohnP

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2015, 03:08:11 PM »
Before you sell it try surface adjustments.  Start out at about 500 grit and work down or up from there.  A P4 or double thumb balance hole might help too.  --  JohnP
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lefty50

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2015, 04:40:42 PM »
John, I should have added that, sorry. I have a spinner and have tried it at 500,1000,2000,4000, and 500/4000 on different nights and 4 different patterns (nats team, Nats minors, 42 ft summer, 38 ft summer). I even tried a light coat of polish. No joy. I have not tried a balance hole yet though. That's a possibility. I still feel the ball is telling me something the night it showed a little life, even if it was only on the last few feet at the end of the night. I just can't figure out what that clue is.
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Steven

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2015, 05:03:16 PM »
Without seeing you bowl in person, I don't feel comfortable providing advice. But based on the limited knowledge I have, here it goes….
 
The Guru, like most heavy oil asymmetrics, wants to roll early. If you have a rev rate less than 300 RPMs, the ball is going to tend to roll out on anything less than a flood. That would explain the "total spare ball" reaction you were experiencing. If you want to attempt to get ball usable for your style, you're going to have to get the surface up to a grit where it doesn't want to roll out early, and/or get the MB in a very strong position (possibly with a hole) to help the ball turn the corner. 
 
You have to decide if you want to invest the time, money and energy to do everything you can to get the ball to work. Only you can decide if you want to take on that kind of project.
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knobs1

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2015, 05:28:04 PM »
sell 2reasons single drills get more money and you had bad luck with the ball so its stuck in your mind wipe the mind clear move on
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lefty50

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2015, 05:59:20 PM »
Definitely a lesson learned here. I've only had one asym that even pretended to work, and it had the MB really swung out, so what you're saying makes sense Steven. Knobs, I also agree with you. That ball is taboo in my mind now and even if I did take it to a second drill that I think might help, anything goes wrong even oce in the next year wold be blamed on the ball istead of the bowler... Plus I've never been able to sell a double drill in my life. Still,  I'd love to see what it does just for learning value.
Let me ask one final question.... If a ball burns out that early for my style, would it still find a condition where it would turn at 45-50 feet at the end of a set? That still throws me for a loop.
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Steven

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2015, 12:41:00 AM »
Quote from: lefty50 on August 20, 2015, 05:59:20 PM

Let me ask one final question.... If a ball burns out that early for my style, would it still find a condition where it would turn at 45-50 feet at the end of a set? That still throws me for a loop.

 
It's entirely possible that significant carry down took place on that 38' pattern. The ball would still have oil at 45-50 feet, and retain enough energy to turn. Shorter patterns tend to have higher volumes up front, so the carry down scenario is very plausible.   
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lefty50

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2015, 01:14:09 AM »
Steven, looking back at your replies, let me ask a basic question to make sure I'm not missing something. It's late at night, but I thought MB strong placement was near the thumb. That's where it is now, so that wouldn't help...?
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kidlost2000

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2015, 08:37:59 AM »
Lefty50 I just drilled a Guru and so far have not been impressed by the ball. It is not the heavy oil ball reaction I was expecting.

It is early and I will put a few more games before adjusting surface and go from there.

I had a similar experience with the original black Reax. First one I drilled was a hooking beast....so much so that I sold it. Later on got one on closeout for cheap and drilled up almost identical to my first one........the ball rolled like urethane. It was aweful and no surface could make it useable. Shit happens. Bad luck
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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

kidlost2000

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2015, 08:40:24 AM »
Also video is always more helpful.

Everyone has a cell phone that can take a vid of them bowling....yet no one ever post it when asking for help. Just food for thought.
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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Steven

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Re: Re-drill or sell it?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2015, 09:56:05 AM »
Lefty, having the MB closer to your PAP will help the ball hook more on the backend. You don't want to go crazy with the angle, but it does make a difference. MB placement in the thumb or right next to it will generally result in an earlier and more rolly reaction.
 
I wouldn't necessarily write the ball off as a "dud". There are too many independent reviews that say it isn't true. Ultimately, your revs and rotation angle may not ideally match up to the Guru, but you won't know unless you go through a redrill and possible some more surface adjustments. Good luck.
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