BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: boondoggle on June 28, 2005, 03:13:50 PM
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What causes a ball to flare in the wrong direction?
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The pin past the VAL or behind the track.
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www.bowlritelanes.com
www.nextlevelproshop.com
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I'm going to say more than I really know about this subject and ask that if I make mistakes others who are more knowledgeable please correct me.
"Reverse flare" is a confusing term, it implies that something drastic occurs and the flare "flips". Actually, the direction of flare in the area we are concerned about - the track area beside the thumb and finger holes - is determined by the location of the bowties (yes, there are two, one on each side of the track). The location of the bowtie nearest to the area of interest can be APPROXIMATED by drawing a line from the PAP through the pin to the first flare line. In most layouts, this bowtie is located above and to the left of the finger holes (I will refer to tracks for right handers). With the bowtie in this location, the track flare is away from both the thumb and fingers. The layouts for some of the Hammer balls have a good graphic of this. But if the pin is lowered far enough, the bowtie moves to below the fingers and the flare is now away from the thumb hole but toward the finger holes. For a high 3/4 track, this type layout may clip the finger holes on the later flare rings. And if the pin position is lowered even further, to positions well below the grip mid line, the bowtie is lowered so far (to a position below the thumb hole) that the flare is now toward both the finger and thumb holes. This is what is referred to as "reverse flare". Note that the flare has not actually reversed IN RELATION TO THE PIN AND PAP, which is the determining factor, but only in relation to the grip. The lower pin positions are often referred to as full roller layouts, since for a full roller they flare away from the thumb and finger holes (still flaring in the same direction as determined by the pin, but away from the holes because of the track position). But these layouts, with care, can also be used for low track 3/4 players. This is how I understand "reverse flare". -- JohnP
As a humorous aside, I spell checked this and Word insists that bowtie should actually be "bootie".
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I believe a full roller drill will flare towards the thumb, or counterclock-wise for a right hander.
I also believe that the Shock and Awe and the Weapon of Mass Bias are designed to flare in the reverse direction.
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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
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In regards to the location of the bow tie, what you said aobut being approximately at the intersection of the track and a line drawn from the PAP through the pin is correct ... but can be fine tuned. According to one site that had a more scientific discussion of this topic, the larger the balls Diff the higher about that point on the track the bow tie will be centered. It didn't give any details like (0.45 diff puts it 1" above intersection point). It just stated that the higher the diff, the bowtie will be located further above the intersection point of the line drawn from PAP through pin, and the first track line.
I have noticed that my WMB had a funky bow tie placement. It didn't seem to be situated where I would have expected it. I can't imagine that it would flare the opposite direction (counter clockwise), as the ball would start to face away from the pocket as it moved the lane. At least I think it would.
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quote:
I have noticed that my WMB had a funky bow tie placement. It didn't seem to be situated where I would have expected it. I can't imagine that it would flare the opposite direction (counter clockwise), as the ball would start to face away from the pocket as it moved the lane. At least I think it would.
dR3w,
Please see my post just above yours for flaring of the WMB.
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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
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Are you saying that you think that for the WMB that the pin moves further away from the track with each revolution of the ball?
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quote:
Are you saying that you think that for the WMB that the pin moves further away from the track with each revolution of the ball?
I think the Vanguard core in the Shock and Awe and in the WMB makes the ball flare from fingers towards the thumb, not from thumb towards the fingers, when thrown by a right-hander. If it matters to you, you should verify that with the MoRich people or one of the MoRich experts here: Precision or King Of The Mill or some others.
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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
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For that to work and not flare over the thumb hole, then the bowtie would have to be centered to the left of the thumb and preferably below. I will have to check to see if that is the case the next time I throw my WMB or S&A.
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For some reason my weapon of mass bias with the pin 4 inches from the axis and mb 5 3/4 inches does not flare more than an inch. Usually in this position, balls with that type of differential flare 5-6 inches for me. I don't know why it does this, maybe it is something to do with the core, but it sure acts more like a smooth rolling medium-light ball than a high load particle.
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stanski
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I believe a full roller drill will flare towards the thumb, or counterclock-wise for a right hander.
charlest -- It depends. Are you referring to a right handed full roller or 3/4 roller? The counterclock wise part is correct for either, but for a full roller this is away from, not toward the thumb hole.
And I should have stated that my comments were primarily for balls with symmetric cores. I don't do much with asymmetric balls, so haven't investigated their flare characteristics yet. Also should have mentioned that balance holes affect the location of the bowtie. -- JohnP
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Brunswick Pro Staffer Patrick Girard shoot first pba 300 with reverse flare drilling
Picture:
http://www.brunswickinsiders.com/PBATour/PBATournaments/Trussville/Qualifyingroundstrussville.htm
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Henrik Tremblay
Roto-Grip International Staff
Vise Inserts Amateur Staff
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Drilling instruction
http://www.brunswickinsiders.com/PBATour/PBATournaments/Westbabylon/featuredbalwb.htm
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Henrik Tremblay
Roto-Grip International Staff
Vise Inserts Amateur Staff
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When looking at the flare rings in the picture included with the drilling instructions Henrik provided, remember that the flare is moving toward the finger holes, not away from them. You can see why this layout could cause problems for a high 3/4 tracker. -- JohnP
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I originally posted the question because I have a ball that unexpectactedly flares in the "reverse" direction. That is to say, the bowtie is in the expected location (i'm left handed, so in my case its just to the right of the finger holes) but instead of flaring away from the thumb hole it flares towards and over it.
The ball is a Storm Sky Bolt. There's nothing exotic about the core, I believe it's a light bulb with a flip block. The drilling I used was from Storm's drill sheet for this ball, Drilling #4 if I recall, which calls for the pin to be placed 1.5" from the PAP with the CG near the COG. I don't remember seeing anything in the sheet about this drill flaring unusually, only that it was a low flare, even arc layout.
Never the less I have a ball that thumps. The reaction was what I was hoping for and the ball hits like a ton of bricks, but the thumping is unseemly. So, I have a new question. Could I avoid redrilling the ball by taking out finger weight to lower the bowtie down to reside next to the thumb hole? Thus allowing the flare to move around the thumb hole as a more conventional flare would move around the finger holes?
I was thinking of sinking the finger holes deeper and/or possibly puting an extra hole above and to the positive side of the fingers.
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quote:
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I believe a full roller drill will flare towards the thumb, or counterclock-wise for a right hander.
charlest -- It depends. Are you referring to a right handed full roller or 3/4 roller?
3/4 roller.
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The counterclock wise part is correct for either, but for a full roller this is away from, not toward the thumb hole.
Because he is already between the thumb and fingers.
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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
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Precision -- I don't think so. Remember, the bowtie is beside and slightly below the thumb hole. Mentally shift the grip so the bowtie is at a more normal position, beside the finger holes. Now, the flare below the bowtie is away from the thumb hole and above the bowtie the flare is from left to right or clockwise. But with the bowtie below the thumb hole, the flare rings move in the same direction as the flare rings above the finger holes in our "mentally shifted" view, clockwise and toward the finger holes. -- JohnP
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I double checked the the layout after Next Level PS' post, the ball is drilled to the spec in the drill sheet using the correct PAP 5" over and 0.25" up. I'm a left handed high 3/4 roller, about 0.5" from the fingers and 0.25' from the thumb hole, maybe 15 degrees of tilt. The pin is 1.5" from my PAP, 1.25" above midline, and 0.75" inward of the VAL. Very close to the VAL, but not over.
This is a second drill for this ball and that may be a factor in this problem.
Also, just to re-iterate, the ball is flaring over my thumb.
The bowtie is centered just to the right (i'm left handed remember) and below the finger holes, and the ball flares clockwise, causing it to roll over the thumb hole, instead of counter clockwise and away from the the thumbhole.
I'm aware of cases of people taking thumb weight out to move a bowtie up to allow a ball to flare around the finger holes, so I'm supposing that taking out finger weight may allow me to move the bowtie down placing it closer to the thumb hole and allow the ball to flare away from the fingers and pivot around the thumb without rolling over it.
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I double checked the the layout after Next Level PS' post, the ball is drilled to the spec in the drill sheet using the correct PAP 5" over and 0.25" up. I'm a left handed high 3/4 roller, about 0.5" from the fingers and 0.25' from the thumb hole, maybe 15 degrees of tilt. ...
Just a wild guess:
If your track is 1/4" from thumb hole and 1/2" from finger hole, your PAP is a lot greater than 5" over, probably 6", and maybe slightly more.
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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
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Precision -- You're right, I missed the fact that the pin is past the track. Just goes to show how easy it is to get mixed up on flare directions. -- JohnP
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^^ I was thinking the exact same thing. I have a very high tilt(about 15-17 degrees) and I track WAY off the fingers and thumb. 4 1/4 right 3/16 down is my axis point.
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-DP3
Respect the Game
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And when you recheck your PAP, be SURE you are using the very first flare ring. The best way is to use a non-flaring ball, such as a Columbia White Dot, Ebonite Maxim, etc. to locate the PAP (be sure to use your strike ball release), then confirm it by marking it with a piece of white tape. When you throw it again the piece of tape should appear stationary. If you mark a flaring ball with the white tape, it will appear stationary for only the first 10 - 15 feet of its travel. You will have to have an observer watch it because by the time you pick it up in your vision it will have already started to flare. -- JohnP
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My bad, typing error, PAP is 6.0" and 0.25"
I'll double check anyhoo, I have a ball that has very visible track lines on it, I'll mark them in with a wax pencil and take a picture so you guys can verify I'm doing that right.
The tilt is something I've never really understood. How do you measure that?
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First you need to determine the diameter of your track. See the instructions at the following link:
https://www.buddiesproshop.com/23/Finding+Track+Diameter.htm
Then, Axis Tilt = (13.5 - Track Diameter) * 6.67
Example: Track Diameter = 11 1/4":
Axis Tilt = (13.5 - 11.25) * 6.67 = 15 degrees