Author Topic: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no? (Read 30816 times)

lefty50 · « **on:** June 06, 2016, 11:19:40 AM »

A well respected bowling source told me yesterday that reverse finger pitch has absolutely no effect on revs.... I admit I was surprised... That's not what I remember hearing over and over and over.

Yes/no?

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2016, 11:38:03 AM »

Did the respected bowling source elaborate?

charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2016, 01:33:58 PM »

Quote from: lefty50 on June 06, 2016, 11:19:40 AM

A well respected bowling source told me yesterday that reverse finger pitch has absolutely no effect on revs.... I admit I was surprised... That's not what I remember hearing over and over and over.

Yes/no?

Does this mean you have been hearing that, if you have a grip and pitches that work for you and if you add more reverse to your thumb's pitch, you will automatically get more revs?

Urethane Game · « **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2016, 01:48:08 PM »

If you're talking reverse in the thumb, excessive reverse would cause more squeezing which would result in a less than clean release.

When I was younger, I bought into the more forward pitch in fingers creates more revs hype but after switching to reverse in the fingers, I can't really tell the difference.

A good fit and creating the proper leverage with your body is the best way to increase revs.

Impending Doom · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2016, 02:02:22 PM »

Proper fit plus proper execution equals more revs.

avabob · « **Reply #5 on:** June 07, 2016, 11:25:53 AM »

Revs are created from the angular force applied by the fingers powered by the arm swing and wrist action. The pitch of the fingers can impact the amount of revs depending on the style of release. Gravity decreases the amount of force that fingers can apply to the ball on the upswing. Reverse finger pitch can make it easier to apply force at the bottom of the swing where the arm swing is at its maximum speed. My rev rate increased when I went to reverse finger pitch, because I was also working on lengthening the flat spot at the bottom of my swing so as not to hit the ball on the upswing. I found reverse finger pitch made it easier for me to transition from my hold hit up and lift style.

J_w73 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 08, 2016, 03:35:37 PM »

Quote from: avabob on June 07, 2016, 11:25:53 AM

Revs are created from the angular force applied by the fingers powered by the arm swing and wrist action. The pitch of the fingers can impact the amount of revs depending on the style of release. Gravity decreases the amount of force that fingers can apply to the ball on the upswing. Reverse finger pitch can make it easier to apply force at the bottom of the swing where the arm swing is at its maximum speed. My rev rate increased when I went to reverse finger pitch, because I was also working on lengthening the flat spot at the bottom of my swing so as not to hit the ball on the upswing. I found reverse finger pitch made it easier for me to transition from my hold hit up and lift style.

Is it possible for reverse pitch in the fingers to cause the ball to come off too quickly? I tried this with my Dad and he said it felt great but he just couldn't hold onto the ball at the bottom and it would drop off his fingers before he had a chance to turn it. I kind of feel the same way. If I go too much reverse I can't get around the ball like I want. But I know guys with 3/4 and 1" reverse and they have a ton of revs.

charlest · « **Reply #7 on:** June 08, 2016, 03:39:14 PM »

Quote from: J_w73 on June 08, 2016, 03:35:37 PM

Quote from: avabob on June 07, 2016, 11:25:53 AM
Revs are created from the angular force applied by the fingers powered by the arm swing and wrist action. The pitch of the fingers can impact the amount of revs depending on the style of release. Gravity decreases the amount of force that fingers can apply to the ball on the upswing. Reverse finger pitch can make it easier to apply force at the bottom of the swing where the arm swing is at its maximum speed. My rev rate increased when I went to reverse finger pitch, because I was also working on lengthening the flat spot at the bottom of my swing so as not to hit the ball on the upswing. I found reverse finger pitch made it easier for me to transition from my hold hit up and lift style.

Is it possible for reverse pitch in the fingers to cause the ball to come off too quickly? I tried this with my Dad and he said it felt great but he just couldn't hold onto the ball at the bottom and it would drop off his fingers before he had a chance to turn it. I kind of feel the same way. If I go too much reverse I can't get around the ball like I want. But I know guys with 3/4 and 1" reverse and they have a ton of revs.

Don't forget that if you add reverse to the thumb or to the fingers, very often, but not always, you have to increase the span. Increased reverse can make the span too short and make it necessary to apply more gripping strength. If your ball fits perfectly before changing the pitch, you MAY need to increase the span to keep the perfect fit.

tipgrinder · « **Reply #8 on:** June 08, 2016, 04:13:56 PM »

Why does my timing suck so bad!!! I had a new Rocket ship drilled up today and had them change my finger pitches from 1/8 forward to 0. I asked the ball driller if that would effect my span and he said NO, but it surely did! I wish Charlest would have posted yesterday

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** June 08, 2016, 09:32:43 PM »

Quote from: tipgrinder on June 08, 2016, 04:13:56 PM

Why does my timing suck so bad!!! I had a new Rocket ship drilled up today and had them change my finger pitches from 1/8 forward to 0. I asked the ball driller if that would effect my span and he said NO, but it surely did! I wish Charlest would have posted yesterday

Hey, sorry, but it may or it may not affect the span. If your span is exact, precise for your hand, then changing reverse or forward in thumb and/or fingers MAY require a change in span for ease of fit and thumb release. It's hard to tell how much span change is needed for how much reverse. There are formulas.

If you add some bevel to the thumb hole, that can help as a temporary fix, if you're have trouble clearing your thumb hole. If the span is now too short, this shouldn't be a major change but even 1/8" can cause some difficulties. Take it back and explain the difficulties you're having and discuss it with him. Everyone's fit is different due to many factors.

Good luck.

avabob · « **Reply #10 on:** June 09, 2016, 10:51:48 AM »

For what it is worth, when I went from forward to reverse pitch in my fingers I made a corresponding change from reverse to forward in my thumb. Doing this keeps the angular relationship between the thumb and fingers the same, and can alleviate the need to change your span. However, I have a very flexible thumb, and can throw just about any pitch I want in the thumb.

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #11 on:** June 09, 2016, 11:00:33 AM »

Well OP, what are your thoughts?

lefty50 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 09, 2016, 11:57:30 AM »

(sarcasm = on) My thoughts? It's about a normal topic thread. So far we've got yes, no, and maybe as responses, plus a hijack, plus enough psuedo science that I thought for a moment I was on bowlingchat.net by mistake.
(sarcasm=off)
Through personal experience, I believe increased reverse decreases revs by a small factor. However, I respect the source greatly, so will be changing back to enough reverse so the pads touch and see what happens (I have slow-mo software now and can observe the results personally). I appreciate the discussion, but like many things, it's interesting how much disagreement there can be on what should be a yes/no observation.

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #13 on:** June 09, 2016, 12:12:32 PM »

It would be an interesting CATS test over the long-term with rev-rate etc.....it probably is a small effect (which was the question) but if the question is "does it have an effect", I would hypothesize yes.

I'm certainly in the proper fit is correct group, but if I felt like I was losing the ball or couldn't let go of it....that would have an effect.

J_w73 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 09, 2016, 12:28:28 PM »

Quote from: lefty50 on June 09, 2016, 11:57:30 AM

(sarcasm = on) My thoughts? It's about a normal topic thread. So far we've got yes, no, and maybe as responses, plus a hijack, plus enough psuedo science that I thought for a moment I was on bowlingchat.net by mistake.
(sarcasm=off)
Through personal experience, I believe increased reverse decreases revs by a small factor. However, I respect the source greatly, so will be changing back to enough reverse so the pads touch and see what happens (I have slow-mo software now and can observe the results personally). I appreciate the discussion, but like many things, it's interesting how much disagreement there can be on what should be a yes/no observation.

I think there are many variables. Going from a correctly spanned ball and then adding reverse, I think could reduce revs and make you have to squeeze more to keep the ball on your fingers. I feel that a lot of people that go to more reverse is to probably fix an issue with their fingers pressing on the back of the inserts. This can be caused by a long span. So if you are already fit incorrectly with a span that is too long, then the reverse in the fingers may be a considerable benefit to your fit and help you increase revs by relaxing your grip.

Author Topic: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no? (Read 30816 times)

lefty50

Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

Aloarjr810

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

charlest

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

Urethane Game

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

Impending Doom

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

avabob

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

J_w73

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

charlest

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

tipgrinder

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

charlest

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

avabob

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

Good Times Good Times

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

lefty50

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

Good Times Good Times

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?

J_w73

Re: Reverse pitch and revs - yes or no?