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Author Topic: Rico....Good for everything??  (Read 3602 times)

LuckyLefty

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Rico....Good for everything??
« on: July 12, 2008, 07:28:51 AM »
To me!  It looks like only good for a condition with a lot of head and midlane oil and flying backends!

Good for everything....OR just above??

REGards,

LUckylefty
PS me thinks it is not much different than a 2 X 2.


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lsf_21

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2008, 03:32:47 PM »
i have a fury pearkl te drilled slightly modified rico with pin in center of grip with no weight hole and if there is no head oil just put it up b/c it rolls as soon as it hits the lane.
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Russell

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2008, 04:21:29 PM »
quote:
i have a fury pearkl te drilled slightly modified rico with pin in center of grip with no weight hole and if there is no head oil just put it up b/c it rolls as soon as it hits the lane.
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That's not a rico...or even close if it has no hole.

Not trying to be ugly...I have a buddy on staff with Brunswick who got a 0-1 Sidewinder ball and drilled it pin in palm w/no hole.  It rolls so smooth and early you swear it isn't resin.

He has won a regional title with the ball....but it is nothing like a "rico"
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2008, 04:24:05 PM »
I tried a pin in palm with no hole layout once.  It made the ball push too long and made it to prone to not recovering at the slightest hint of carrydown.

I would also disagree with LuckyLefty's suggestion that a RICO layout is similar to a 2x2.  The longer pin to PAP distance will give you a more delayed reaction and make the ball get into its hook motion later down the lane, even though both balls will start to roll early.  Take a look at this for an example of what I mean:  http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=202453&ForumID=92&CategoryID=5
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2008, 04:35:15 PM »
Well Dan...I did not read the other post...sorry...I may though...BUT...

A 2 X 2 provides 2/3 the flare of 3 3 /8 pin position.  USUALLY a 5 inch pin to pap will give one length(especially pin over the fingers)  but often when the pin is down as far as a Rico places it the drilling is then fairly early rolling!

That is why I frankly thought the Rico would be similar to the 2 X 2.  Both early rolling and smooth.

I have seen and thrown 2 X 2s and 2 X 5 but I must confess I have not seen a Rico in action personally(or known it from watching)  I have thrown a lot of a pin down drills (a side tracking lefties favorite drilling for oil and friction to the side, the revs leverage(pin down(but stronger flare position say 3 3/8 to 4 1/4) and cg down and a weighthole DOWN the VAL.

This is a similar but different drilling than the Rico but frankly similar in many ways.....with only the pin about 1 inch different from the Rico drilling!

It is early and flares more (I'm sure)than the Rico I'm  but I've had some done 4 1/2 by 4 1/2 stacked and down so not much different than the Rico.

REgards,

Luckylefty
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charlest

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2008, 04:40:17 PM »
quote:
To me!  It looks like only good for a condition with a lot of head and midlane oil and flying backends!

Good for everything....OR just above??

REGards,

LUckylefty
PS me thinks it is not much different than a 2 X 2.
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Open the door...see what''s possible...and just walk right on through...that''s how easy success feels..


Nope, not true that "only good for a condition with a lot of head and midlane oil and flying backends".

As far as I know -
The Rico is not a cure all. The Rico is not one particular ball reaction for all balls. The Rico is not for any particular oil pattern it does help with certain situations IF your release/delivery has trouble with that situation, that oil amount/pattern, with THAT PARTICULAR ball you are using.

The ball and its surface finish and your release and delivery will determine how much head oil, how much midlane oil you will need, not the drilling.

The Rico is just another drilling. As such, it modifies the ball reaction from that of a "normal" or "average" drilling, IF you know how that ball reacts FOR YOUR RELEASE, FOR THAT OIL PATTERN & LANE SURFACE.

* It can help smooth out over/under or wet/drys (dpending on your point of view).
* It can help fight carrydown for your release for that ball.
* It makes the ball NOT early, BUT earlier than it is FOR THAT BALL, FOR YOUR RELEASE, WITH A NORMAL DRILLING.
* It can help make the ball NOT smooth, BUT smoother than it is FOR THAT BALL, FOR YOUR RELEASE, WITH A NORMAL DRILLING.
* Because that Rico-drilled ball is smoother and earlier, it will have less backend and less flip.
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Edited on 7/12/2008 4:41 PM
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2008, 04:46:27 PM »
quote:
Well Dan...I did not read the other post...sorry...I may though...BUT...
You may want to take a look.  It's got a link to a video of me throwing a ball with a Rico drill on it.  You'll probably find it goes against some of your preconceived notions and is exactly in line with details charlest laid out in the post directly above this one.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2008, 05:13:03 PM »
Charlest....I understand your words and know they were delivered with not just me in mind....but for many others..... and were meant to splain...

BUT....I understand the purpose of drillings and releases by this point I hope.
My assumption (unlike some others on this board) is that all drilling differences can only be ascertained by maintaining all other contstants the same.

However.....the bottom line is this drilling is for early and smooth in general!  Right!?

REgards,

Luckylefty
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charlest

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2008, 05:31:27 PM »
quote:
Charlest....
However.....the bottom line is this drilling is for early and smooth in general!  Right!?

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


No. That's the point. It's for earlier and smoother, not early and smooth. There's a major difference. It's a way to smooth out a ball. It is not a way to make a smooth ball. There's no guarantee or even an implication that the ball will be smooth and early.
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2008, 05:33:06 PM »
quote:
No. That's the point. It's for earlier and smoother, not early and smooth. There's a major difference. It's a way to smooth out a ball. It is not a way to make a smooth ball. There's no guarantee or even an implication that the ball will be smooth and early.
Exactly.  In my video I linked from the other thread, I'm throwing a Storm Eraser Banshee, a ball that wants to be skid/snap by nature.  Putting a Rico drill on it certainly does NOT make it smooth and early.  It does, however, make it smoother and earlier than it would otherwise be and tames down that snap.
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cartman33

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2008, 10:08:24 AM »
i agree with charlest and Dan Belcher... i have a rico'd momentum and on drilled 4x4... while they make the same basic shape the rico'd ball is smoother off the break point than the 4x4...

i remember brunsrick (i think that is his user name) saying that the type of reaction that you get from the rico drill, will be dictated by the original ball reaction ...(he said something like this).... if you put this drill on something skid-flip, you'll still end up with a skip-flip type reaction but it will be smoother...if you put it on a smoother ball you end up with a smoother ball...make sense?
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2008, 10:30:56 AM »
I misspoke....I did not mean early and smooth....I meant earlier and smoother!

Again I noted for that ball, that surface, that bowler, that oil pattern that house.  All other constants the same besides the drilling..  A rico I expect would be earlier and smoother than a pin up assymetrical flip....AGAIN given all other constants the same!

I understand how flip oriented cores can remain more flippy than non flippy cores even with a rico on both!

I also understand how flip oriented deliveries such as mine versus non flip oriented style deliveries will still deliver more flip even if the ball is rico'd for both of us on the same pattern and same ball with same surface.

EarliER and SmoothER....sorry!

REgards,

Luckylefty

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LuckyLefty

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2008, 10:33:37 AM »
OK....not that we've put all the proper disclaimers....assumptions, caveats and the remainder of all horsemanure out of the picture.....

Does a Rico compare similar to a 2 X 5, or a 2 X 2 or nothing of the sort?

Can a Rico be used on low volume oil patterns or are their better options on a particular ball, particular surface,  particular...(oh....you know what I mean!}

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2008, 12:16:53 PM »
Think about the basics.  (the Rico layout is NOT a magic drill, I can't stress that enough.  You have to evalutate it the same way you evaluate any other layout)  Let's assume you have a PAP 5" over straight across for simplicity's sake.  Which ball is going to go longer?  The ball with the pin at grip center, 5" from the PAP, or the ball with the pin 2" from the PAP?  Just because the pin is very low doesn't mean it's going to rev up and hook very early like the 2" pin to PAP distance layout would.  The core is going to take longer to migrate to the axis, resulting in a little more length and a more continuous ball motion with the longer pin to PAP distance.  The low pin merely means the ball wants to get into its roll sooner, but do it more gradually than a high pin position.
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charlest

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Re: Rico....Good for everything??
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2008, 03:07:11 PM »
quote:
OK....not that we've put all the proper disclaimers....assumptions, caveats and the remainder of all horsemanure out of the picture.....

Does a Rico compare similar to a 2 X 5, or a 2 X 2 or nothing of the sort?

Can a Rico be used on low volume oil patterns or are their better options on a particular ball, particular surface,  particular...(oh....you know what I mean!}

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


I have a few balls with a 2x5 and no, in my opinion, it's not anything like that. My PAP,5x0, is conducive to this comparison. Unless you're PAP is in that area, remember the pin-2-PAP for a Rico is dependent on where you PAP is, because the PIN, for a RICO is 99% of the tim in grip center. So with a RIco your pin distance can be 4" or 6" or anything.

I can't compare it to a 2x2, as I don't have any balls like that. My inclination is to say no, it isn't. 2x2 are early but may also be sudden, almost flippy most Ricos are not flippy.

If anything, a Rico would be used on slightly more oil, because it is earlier and smoother. I also see more hook overall, but that may just me. I can't say.
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