BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: LuckyLefty on March 09, 2014, 05:25:05 PM
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OK, bought from a so so(at best internet seller) a C System MAXXED. It came with a short pin out and only around 2 ounces of top weight. My request 3 to 4 pin and 2.5 of top weight to tweak.
I have an acquaintance killing it with this smooth powerful symmetric on the left side in our house!
He has 4 inch pin out, and pin over ring stacked. I wanted near the same, as this house requires backend to strike.
My current solutions that work most of the time: a pin up Mission X mass bias strong. A slightly pin up and next to ring Rotogrip Grand Illusion.
My feeling was this very low RG Maxx needed pin up slightly to keep this ball from bellying too much on this shot where a lot of belly can only be solved by the amount of backend an assym can deliver.
My thoughts are that with this short of a pin out(near 1 and 1/2) I am going to have trouble putting pin near ring and producing the type of reaction I want, through deeper fingers and a reaction enhancing weighthole down(as the deeper fingers shift the pre weighthole cg down).
Do some of the drilling gurus feel that with this setup I can have any type of reaction but smooth and even! for this very low rg, short pin out, low top weight ball?
Regards,
Luckylefty
pS I have recently used the above compensations to get a Total Bedlam with a short pi out to be pin up and have a similar but slightly weaker trajectory to my stronger Mission X. (Just what I wanted!).
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Pin to CG distance and top weight DO NOT enhance ball reaction or motion...put the pin the desired distance from the pap to create the amount of flare necessary
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Just drill the fingers deeper if you need to.
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This house is for lofters and higher speed bowlers. No even arc big belly midlane balls are carrying.
On LOW RG balls like this all the bowlers are pin up and often high speed and good loft.
I know the Pin to Pap distance I want. For JustRico does pin up matter, or just pin to PAP?
Also, Kidlost has provided for me a chart on how much diff decreases and rg increases based on how deep the fingers go. Do guys who have a lot of experience drilling fingerholes deeper tend to place the pin a tad closer to the pap to compensate for the decreased diff, to get the flare they want?
REgards,
Luckylefty
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You think way too much.
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Keep in mind on those charts the difference is in 1000ths and the ball lines still charted on top of each other on the lane chart. (fwiw)
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You have an interesting of ball reaction to say the least
I'd be worried abt drilling the holes too deep cause then you'll end with bottom weight and we know how that diminishes back end reaction
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Rico, check out my pic of my Network in my Network thread. I ended up with negative side AND thumb! I'll never get it to turn the corner!
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Ummm...
I think you guys are obsessed with a previous conversation.
My last question. Rico, "Do you thing pin up and pin down will make a difference with the same pin to pap"
I usually perceive a pin above pap 5 inch pin to pap to roll different from a 5 inch pin to Pap under the fingers. Please elaborate. I am not talking about top weight at this time and have barely touched on it, stating the facts of the stats as are stated on the box.
Just, Could you elaborate on different pin to Pap locations?
Regards,
Luckylefty
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You know I would but no matter what or how I answer them you tend to twist em so honestly no...if you want actual help sign up for an HYBC membership which will entitle you to those type of insight...
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Thanks, I wasn't sure if you knew the answer.
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Lol ya that's it I don't know the answer...you're a funny guy...wow maybe I should just answer it for you huh...hadn't thought of that you clever lefty...
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So I guess you are saying your other posts were just to hassle?
:o
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Sounds like to me you are on the wrong trail. Symmetric ball- Rico told you to focus on pin placement. Cg is important only in relation to where you can put a flare increasing or decreasing hole. As I understand it, mb after drilling is going to be in the thumb. Not sure what you mean by stacked drilling.
Keep in mind that placing the pin 5 inches from your PAP is generally going to give you less flare with a symmetrical ball. Also, surface is going to have more of an impact on ball reaction than whether the ball is long or short pin.
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Wrong trail?
My question was asked was about pin placement UP or Down whether it mattered along with pin to pap distance. How is that off base to the discussion the ballreviews crowd wants to have?
I came out to the community of helpful bowling ball enthusiasts...
He asked me for a subscription to a website I have never heard of? What?
Really?
Regards,
Luckylefty
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You have an issue with English....membership not subscription
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Pin up vs. pin down . . . Oh boy, the can of worms . . . This has been discussed many times. On a symmetrical ball, pin distance and VAL angle are the biggest factors before adding a balance hole. Smaller VAL angles have a smaller hook zone (sharper breakpoint). Larger VAL angles will make the ball have a longer/smoother hook zone.
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tommy,
Thank you....and I agree. I think the same pin to PAP for overall flare determination, tweak and anticipate for deeper finger holes on this ball(to make illegal) and then create a smaller VAL angle and Drill angle for a sharper backend.
ie pin up(which for most results in smaller Val angles for same pin to PAP) should create a sharper backend.
What I want!
Just less than my macho Mission X! ball of the year! 2012 2013 and 2014!
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Low top weight balls are very versatile. CG DON'T MATTER on Syms, therefore actual pin distance DON'T MATTER either. Tell my customers all the time this is the order importance on matching up with the proper shape to carry but no one wants to listen.
1. Ball Surface Friction
2. Lane Surface Friction
3. Lane Pattern/Volume/Oil Viscosity
4. Ball Core Strength
5. Weight hole placement/depth in relation to PAP
6. Ball Layout
7. Color or Scent (don't care what anyone tells me, pigment, powders, and scent alter friction)
There is no magic #6 , practice and execute
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Low top weight balls are very versatile. CG DON'T MATTER on Syms, therefore actual pin distance DON'T MATTER either. Tell my customers all the time this is the order importance on matching up with the proper shape to carry but no one wants to listen.
1. Ball Surface Friction
2. Lane Surface Friction
3. Lane Pattern/Volume/Oil Viscosity
4. Ball Core Strength
5. Weight hole placement/depth in relation to PAP
6. Ball Layout
7. Color or Scent (don't care what anyone tells me, pigment, powders, and scent alter friction)
There is no magic #6 , practice and execute
So, are you saying that an unscented Storm ball would roll significantly different than a scented storm ball, all other factors being the same?
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I think bowling balls that smell like resin when you drill them are amazing.
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I think bowling balls that smell like resin when you drill them are amazing.
Yep. I wonder how the resin scent alters friction.
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I've noticed that the ones that have that sulfur (rotten egg) smell have very little hook.
All kidding aside, I think that color/smell will probably have a very, very small effect on hook as they are additives to a coverstock. I seem to recall some other topics here that were about the effects of color.