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Author Topic: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap  (Read 9407 times)

LuckyLefty

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All this year I have been bowling on a explosive wet dry, but not really that wet in the middle and only 35 feet laydown in length.

I had a moderate amount of success using Columbia old techniques of aggressively throwing way in to the dry(well past the 10 board oil line) with weak solids like my stacked Sonic X solid.

I kept thinking with my straightest release near 40 degrees I would have good results with a 2 inch pin to pap.  I had both a Hammer Onyx Vibe 2 X 5 and a Ebonite Pearl Stinger 2 X 2 with a strong weighthole for this pearl.

In all reality both were mediocre failures on this shot.  Only the solid Onyx Vibe had a few good games and most of the time looked spent well before the pocket.

However, yesterday I went to a Sister house pulled out the Onyx Vibe and realized there was more oil in the middle and maybe even a sparkier side area.  But this ball went in to homing pigeon mode and annihilated the shot for 4 games.  I finished with the only two games I bowled with just that ball with 245 and 238 with a missed 7 pin I think in each game!

I tried in the early games one of my smoother solids but stacked and though I could find the pocket why fight city hall when it was so easy with the 2 X 5 Onyx Vibe.  Though it just walked in to the pocket it hit with a flourish.

Much more energy retention than on the shorter and lower volume shot at the original house.

Now I am laying out a pin on PAP reactive pearl that I tried out for the original house to give a try and see if I can create the same area and energy retention the solid has at the wetter sister house.

For those battling wet/dry don't be afraid to try these laying down weightblock drillings.  2 X 5.

From the gurus any other ideas for the original house besides what I proposed above?

REgards,

Luckylefty

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

 

TWOHAND834

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2013, 12:37:05 PM »
All this year I have been bowling on a explosive wet dry, but not really that wet in the middle and only 35 feet laydown in length.

I had a moderate amount of success using Columbia old techniques of aggressively throwing way in to the dry(well past the 10 board oil line) with weak solids like my stacked Sonic X solid.

I kept thinking with my straightest release near 40 degrees I would have good results with a 2 inch pin to pap.  I had both a Hammer Onyx Vibe 2 X 5 and a Ebonite Pearl Stinger 2 X 2 with a strong weighthole for this pearl.

In all reality both were mediocre failures on this shot.  Only the solid Onyx Vibe had a few good games and most of the time looked spent well before the pocket.

However, yesterday I went to a Sister house pulled out the Onyx Vibe and realized there was more oil in the middle and maybe even a sparkier side area.  But this ball went in to homing pigeon mode and annihilated the shot for 4 games.  I finished with the only two games I bowled with just that ball with 245 and 238 with a missed 7 pin I think in each game!

I tried in the early games one of my smoother solids but stacked and though I could find the pocket why fight city hall when it was so easy with the 2 X 5 Onyx Vibe.  Though it just walked in to the pocket it hit with a flourish.

Much more energy retention than on the shorter and lower volume shot at the original house.

Now I am laying out a pin on PAP reactive pearl that I tried out for the original house to give a try and see if I can create the same area and energy retention the solid has at the wetter sister house.

For those battling wet/dry don't be afraid to try these laying down weightblock drillings.  2 X 5.

From the gurus any other ideas for the original house besides what I proposed above?

REgards,

Luckylefty



The only thing I could recommend for the tougher house would be to get away from resin altogether and get a shiny urethane or something like a Taboo Spare or new True Blood (plastic ball with a core).  There is the new Polar Ice Hybrid and Super Natural.  Personally, I would go that route on the shorter/lighter volume patterns.
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Gizmo823

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2013, 12:40:43 PM »
May not work for everyone, but using weaker equipment with odd drillings usually isn't the answer for me.  Weaker equipment will be more sensitive to both the wet and the dry.  I find a bigger hooking ball with a hybrid or solid cover takes the lane more out of play.  I bowl at a house with a 36 ft dry pattern, some people can't keep Vibes and Tropical Heats off the headpin, but I throw a Brutal Nightmare.  I throw 16-17 mph at about 450 rpm.  I play the oil and stay away from the dry.  Funny thing is that my yellow pearl Misfit does about the same thing from the same angle because it's so dry, but if I catch too much oil, it doesn't finish, and if it gets too far out it checks pretty hard.  Bigger hooking balls hook more in the oil and don't react as sharply to the dry. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

TWOHAND834

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 12:47:47 PM »
Lefty.......where is the oil line or wet/dry?  Does it occur around the 7-8 boards or further inside; say closer to 12 board?  Is it a ton of hook at the gutter and wetter in the track or free hook left and the oil isnt found until you get closer to 3rd arrow?
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2013, 01:24:30 PM »
They attempt to put out a bunch of oil but from 10 to 10 to 35 foot and then buff to 40.

It is in the so called buffed area35 foot to 40 feet in length 10 to 20 that the ball actually jerks sideways for a pearl in early games, and misses the head pin and for a solid gives a wave to the headpin as it maybe glancingly touches it.

I used the technique with my solids of throwing 10 to 3 at 30 feet with aggressive revs.  If instead one throws to 6 or 8 at 35 foot washouts often result!

As a result up to 30 feet it is a very typical wet dry to side to side and sparky.  As the double nozzled 10 to 10 to 35 feet quickly moves down the sides at 35 feet start to look like a reverse block  sloppy outside of 10 and sparky in the slowly getting wetter in the 35 to 40 foot buff area(10 to 10).  Rigtties push that oil right down in practice.

I've played most successfully as above (10 to 3 with a weak cored solid) but have also gone to the third arrow (starting in the 2nd game) and swung my stacked Tropical Heat solid 14 to 11 Speed must be FIRM or as the sparkiness lessens my AMF Shredit on the same line calms down to at least annihilate pocket.

Regards,

Luckylefty
In general our fast bowlers like it and our 30 degreers and less like it!  Stll considering a 2 by 5 pearl as the 2 x 2 pearl is such a DUD!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 01:32:54 PM by LuckyLefty »
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

TWOHAND834

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 02:21:39 PM »
They attempt to put out a bunch of oil but from 10 to 10 to 35 foot and then buff to 40.

It is in the so called buffed area35 foot to 40 feet in length 10 to 20 that the ball actually jerks sideways for a pearl in early games, and misses the head pin and for a solid gives a wave to the headpin as it maybe glancingly touches it.

I used the technique with my solids of throwing 10 to 3 at 30 feet with aggressive revs.  If instead one throws to 6 or 8 at 35 foot washouts often result!

As a result up to 30 feet it is a very typical wet dry to side to side and sparky.  As the double nozzled 10 to 10 to 35 feet quickly moves down the sides at 35 feet start to look like a reverse block  sloppy outside of 10 and sparky in the slowly getting wetter in the 35 to 40 foot buff area(10 to 10).  Rigtties push that oil right down in practice.

I've played most successfully as above (10 to 3 with a weak cored solid) but have also gone to the third arrow (starting in the 2nd game) and swung my stacked Tropical Heat solid 14 to 11 Speed must be FIRM or as the sparkiness lessens my AMF Shredit on the same line calms down to at least annihilate pocket.

Regards,

Luckylefty
In general our fast bowlers like it and our 30 degreers and less like it!  Stll considering a 2 by 5 pearl as the 2 x 2 pearl is such a DUD!

With that said....my first thought still rings in my head; take a pearlized urethane and move left and play closer to 7 out to 3.  Once the urethane starts to hook too much, then ball up to something more aggressive and play 3rd arrow...BUT.....make sure to get it out to 3 also.  Why fight a two board area in the track if you dont have to.  As people used to tell me..."Go around it".  You will still need something with a cover clean enough to get down the lane.  But use layout to determine how much ball motion you want once it gets down lane. 

EX:  For me when I encounter this; I would take my Violent Eruption with pin 5 inches from PAP but cg kicked out and a weight hole down and move inside 3rd arrow but throw it to 3-4-5 at 35 feet and let the core dynamics take over.  I would not attempt to mess with a breakpoint around 10-12 because I know I would be in danger of leaving a 2-8-10.  Move in where the "push is".  But throw it to a point you know it will get back to the headpin.
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JustRico

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 03:17:15 PM »
When deviating from leverage or 3 3/8" you diminish overall flare potential and shape, thus a pin farther from leverage towards the track creates length with a quicker response or hockey stick; a pin farther from leverage towards the PAP creates an earlier reaction and slower response to friction or a curve.
A variable I strongly believe in is in the use of weight holes in adjusting speed as well, i.e.slowing the ball down to control the reaction.
I am not a huge fan of either 1.5-2" pin to pap or 5-6" pin to pap without weight holes, they become less susceptible to over/under due to flare rings being too tight which can create hyper sensibility to oil down lane smoothing out the 35-45' range.
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TWOHAND834

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2013, 03:27:52 PM »
When deviating from leverage or 3 3/8" you diminish overall flare potential and shape, thus a pin farther from leverage towards the track creates length with a quicker response or hockey stick; a pin farther from leverage towards the PAP creates an earlier reaction and slower response to friction or a curve.
A variable I strongly believe in is in the use of weight holes in adjusting speed as well, i.e.slowing the ball down to control the reaction.
I am not a huge fan of either 1.5-2" pin to pap or 5-6" pin to pap without weight holes, they become less susceptible to over/under due to flare rings being too tight which can create hyper sensibility to oil down lane smoothing out the 35-45' range.

Exactly!!  Thats the direction I was going in with this.  The 5 inch pin will get the ball through the front but with that weight hole down, it still allows the core dynamics to do their thing.  So, with my Violent Eruption, instead of having something skid flip, it is more of a skid/hard arc, but still controllable.  However, with a urethane, a 5 inch pin to PAP will still not result in a skid/flip reaction simply because the coverstock wont respond so violently off the friction.  So I would think he could get away with just a simple drilling with no weight hole and still not be flippy with a urethane.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2013, 11:52:30 PM »
Just Rico,

I appreciate those comments.  I would like to understand them a little better.

Lower Flare drillings you like weight holes and I think I remember from some of your other posts larger and shallower rather than smaller and deeper to increase the space between flare rings...Is that right?  Also I believe often weightholes down is often a choice you recommend correct?

TwoHand,

I might as well tell you the Storm Natural I have hooks and then straightens out.
Usually with reactives on any pair I have more backend than anyone(usually too much)!  But not with this strike ball dud!  I use it as a spare ball drilled 4 1/2 X 3 1/2.  With a P2.5 weight hole Great spare ball for the 2 4 8 10! 

Regards,

Luckylefty
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 08:52:51 AM by LuckyLefty »
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

TWOHAND834

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2013, 07:58:47 AM »
Just Rico,

I appreciate those comments.  I would like to understand them a little better.

Lower Flare drillings you like weight holes and I think I remember from some of your other posts larger and shallower rather than smaller and deeper to increase the space between flare rings...Is that right?  Also I believe often weightholes down is often a choice you recommend correct?

TwoHand,

I might as well tell you the Storm Natural I have hooks and then straightens out.
Usually on any pair I have more backend than anyone!  But not with this strike ball dud!  I use it as a spare ball drilled 4 1/2 X 3 1/2.  With a P2.5 weight hole Great spare ball for the 2 4 8 10! 

Regards,

Luckylefty

What surface do you have on the Natural?  OOB finish was pretty dull.  Wasnt it? 
Steven Vance
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2013, 08:56:01 AM »
Twohand834,

 I just looked at the finishes and the Natural was listed as 2000.

The Blue Hammer was listed as 800/1000/2000/4000.

I'm thinking of adding a little duller under sand.  Your thoughts?

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

TWOHAND834

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2013, 11:13:19 AM »
Twohand834,

 I just looked at the finishes and the Natural was listed as 2000.

The Blue Hammer was listed as 800/1000/2000/4000.

I'm thinking of adding a little duller under sand.  Your thoughts?

Regards,

Luckylefty

Do you think the straight part is the ball hitting some carrydown and not continuing or do you think the ball is reading the lane too fast and burning up once it gets to the backend?  That will determine which way to go with the surface. 
Steven Vance
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2013, 12:39:37 PM »
Great question, I just can't tell....to be honest!

I am thinking more bite to try first!  There is definitely a lot of dry from 1 to 10 to 35 feet and then it is sloppier outside from 35 to 40 feet than it is inside, early in a set.

All the other ways I have of attacking the shot have me inside of that slop all the way....3rd arrow strategies .  Other ways flinging reactive solids 10 to 3 at 25 feet have me heading back up hill before that area or should I say the attack angle/break point starts before that slop.

The Urethane does seem to force me out and to roll thru that slop. 

The other house noted above where the 2 X 5 worked seems to have just harsh dry outside of 10, all the way down, that is why the 2 X 5 seems to find such easy smooth recovery all the way and with miss area.

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS most righties seem to bowl to the end of the pattern all night long, I do that somewhere in game 2.
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Xcessive_Evil

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2013, 05:51:42 AM »
I prefer using high end equipment with a 2" pin. 60* 2" 40* to be exact.  I have a sync, reign of power and modern marvel drilled this way.  All with x-holes, and I get the reaction I was missing on shorter/lighter volume patterns.  I will probably never use urethane again unless I'm on a 25' pattern or wood.

scotts33

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Re: Side to Side Wet Dry and that old fashioned 2 inch pin to Pap
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2013, 07:07:43 AM »
It's all about the amount of axis rotation which I have said about the OP's game many times cut down axis rotation forward roll it and you'll have less snap off the friction on the left side.  Righties don't see as much of this only on fresh house conditions as the lanes even out they can release with more axis rotation and it doesn't jump as much. 
Scott