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Author Topic: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb  (Read 10315 times)

xrayjay

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UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« on: December 04, 2011, 11:47:12 AM »
Real quick:

 I've decided to switch to the IT system instead of the thumb mold, and tweak my thumb pitch this weekend.

At 1/4 reverse, no matter how tight I make my thumb be, I still grab. Especially when I am tired or under pressure.

Have any of you gone forward pitch with your thumb? And, what is your span?

Is it a wrong time to do this in the season?

Thanks for any suggestions or advice given....

I'll update my progress...(rushing out the door)


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Edited by xrayjay on 12/12/2011 at 9:54 PM
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xrayjay

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Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2011, 01:43:36 PM »

 yeah he did.... I missed the clinic cause I had to work that weekend. I wish I had gone...it'll be awhile till RC comes around this area again....btw, where do you bowl out of?



milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 2:19 PM:
Yep, the Woodland clinic. Not sure who has the pro-shop there now, but it was Lonnie Cavins previously. Lonnie's wife is now the GM of Woodhaven, so Lonnie moved to Landpark with his shop.
 



xrayjay wrote on 12/6/2011 12:22 PM:

 milo...did you attend the one clinic in Woodland, CA.? I believe the guy helping me was from woodland shop from what I've heard. Anyway, can't wait to get this started.






milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 11:08 AM:

Good Post! I attended one of Ron's clinics this summer and was having some wrist issues I suspected were being caused by my ball fit. One of the first things Ron did was check my thumb pitch and recommended a change. Since working with Ron, my wrist is no longer an issue and my average is up 10+ pins over last year.
 






ImBackInTheGame wrote on 12/5/2011 3:34 PM:

If you ever read any of Ron Clifton's articles, he strongly believes that most people have too much reverse pitch and should try moving it forward.


 


My span is around 5" and if you go by the "chart" it says I should have 7/16 reverse pitch for my thumb.  My first driller did 1/8 reverse, couldn't get out of the ball, second driller changed to what the chart said (7/16), didn't like it, moved to 5/16 reverse and it's better, but I think I could go a little more forward than that.  


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milorafferty

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Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2011, 01:54:10 PM »

 I bowl in Stockton, Manteca and Dublin.
 
It was a good clinic, Ron really knows bowling, has good insight and a great ability to transfer that knowledge to his student.
 
We might be able to get him back out here next summer. Lonnie and Diana are the ones who got him to hold the Woodland clinic. It was a full roster, so it should have been worth Ron's time at least. If he comes back, I'll attend again.
xrayjay wrote on 12/6/2011 2:43 PM:

 yeah he did.... I missed the clinic cause I had to work that weekend. I wish I had gone...it'll be awhile till RC comes around this area again....btw, where do you bowl out of?



milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 2:19 PM:
Yep, the Woodland clinic. Not sure who has the pro-shop there now, but it was Lonnie Cavins previously. Lonnie's wife is now the GM of Woodhaven, so Lonnie moved to Landpark with his shop.
 



xrayjay wrote on 12/6/2011 12:22 PM:

 milo...did you attend the one clinic in Woodland, CA.? I believe the guy helping me was from woodland shop from what I've heard. Anyway, can't wait to get this started.






milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 11:08 AM:

Good Post! I attended one of Ron's clinics this summer and was having some wrist issues I suspected were being caused by my ball fit. One of the first things Ron did was check my thumb pitch and recommended a change. Since working with Ron, my wrist is no longer an issue and my average is up 10+ pins over last year.
 






ImBackInTheGame wrote on 12/5/2011 3:34 PM:

If you ever read any of Ron Clifton's articles, he strongly believes that most people have too much reverse pitch and should try moving it forward.


 


My span is around 5" and if you go by the "chart" it says I should have 7/16 reverse pitch for my thumb.  My first driller did 1/8 reverse, couldn't get out of the ball, second driller changed to what the chart said (7/16), didn't like it, moved to 5/16 reverse and it's better, but I think I could go a little more forward than that.  


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xrayjay

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Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2011, 02:03:52 PM »

I kinda had a hunch that he might have had something to do with RC coming to NorCal. If he does come back, I'll be sure to attend. btw, I head down to stockton and manteca for Match Club, maybe I'll see you there..



milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 2:54 PM:

 I bowl in Stockton, Manteca and Dublin.

 

It was a good clinic, Ron really knows bowling, has good insight and a great ability to transfer that knowledge to his student.

 

We might be able to get him back out here next summer. Lonnie and Diana are the ones who got him to hold the Woodland clinic. It was a full roster, so it should have been worth Ron's time at least. If he comes back, I'll attend again.



xrayjay wrote on 12/6/2011 2:43 PM:

 yeah he did.... I missed the clinic cause I had to work that weekend. I wish I had gone...it'll be awhile till RC comes around this area again....btw, where do you bowl out of?






milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 2:19 PM:

Yep, the Woodland clinic. Not sure who has the pro-shop there now, but it was Lonnie Cavins previously. Lonnie's wife is now the GM of Woodhaven, so Lonnie moved to Landpark with his shop.
 






xrayjay wrote on 12/6/2011 12:22 PM:


 milo...did you attend the one clinic in Woodland, CA.? I believe the guy helping me was from woodland shop from what I've heard. Anyway, can't wait to get this started.









milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 11:08 AM:


Good Post! I attended one of Ron's clinics this summer and was having some wrist issues I suspected were being caused by my ball fit. One of the first things Ron did was check my thumb pitch and recommended a change. Since working with Ron, my wrist is no longer an issue and my average is up 10+ pins over last year.
 









ImBackInTheGame wrote on 12/5/2011 3:34 PM:


If you ever read any of Ron Clifton's articles, he strongly believes that most people have too much reverse pitch and should try moving it forward.



 



My span is around 5" and if you go by the "chart" it says I should have 7/16 reverse pitch for my thumb.  My first driller did 1/8 reverse, couldn't get out of the ball, second driller changed to what the chart said (7/16), didn't like it, moved to 5/16 reverse and it's better, but I think I could go a little more forward than that.  


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milorafferty

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Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2011, 02:16:51 PM »
Cool, I bowl with the West Lane club and with Manteca. I'll be there Saturday for the fun day.
 
xrayjay wrote on 12/6/2011 3:03 PM:

I kinda had a hunch that he might have had something to do with RC coming to NorCal. If he does come back, I'll be sure to attend. btw, I head down to stockton and manteca for Match Club, maybe I'll see you there..



milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 2:54 PM:

 I bowl in Stockton, Manteca and Dublin.

 

It was a good clinic, Ron really knows bowling, has good insight and a great ability to transfer that knowledge to his student.

 

We might be able to get him back out here next summer. Lonnie and Diana are the ones who got him to hold the Woodland clinic. It was a full roster, so it should have been worth Ron's time at least. If he comes back, I'll attend again.



xrayjay wrote on 12/6/2011 2:43 PM:

 yeah he did.... I missed the clinic cause I had to work that weekend. I wish I had gone...it'll be awhile till RC comes around this area again....btw, where do you bowl out of?






milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 2:19 PM:

Yep, the Woodland clinic. Not sure who has the pro-shop there now, but it was Lonnie Cavins previously. Lonnie's wife is now the GM of Woodhaven, so Lonnie moved to Landpark with his shop.
 






xrayjay wrote on 12/6/2011 12:22 PM:


 milo...did you attend the one clinic in Woodland, CA.? I believe the guy helping me was from woodland shop from what I've heard. Anyway, can't wait to get this started.









milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 11:08 AM:


Good Post! I attended one of Ron's clinics this summer and was having some wrist issues I suspected were being caused by my ball fit. One of the first things Ron did was check my thumb pitch and recommended a change. Since working with Ron, my wrist is no longer an issue and my average is up 10+ pins over last year.
 









ImBackInTheGame wrote on 12/5/2011 3:34 PM:


If you ever read any of Ron Clifton's articles, he strongly believes that most people have too much reverse pitch and should try moving it forward.



 



My span is around 5" and if you go by the "chart" it says I should have 7/16 reverse pitch for my thumb.  My first driller did 1/8 reverse, couldn't get out of the ball, second driller changed to what the chart said (7/16), didn't like it, moved to 5/16 reverse and it's better, but I think I could go a little more forward than that.  


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LuckyLefty

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Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2011, 02:43:26 PM »
really good information!

 

I'm thinking of going to 3 1/2 span and 2 inches forward?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Regards,

 

Luckylefty

 


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xrayjay

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Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2011, 03:08:11 PM »
LL, you're living on the edge... You're dangerous, but, might be a trend setter..;)
Lol


 
LuckyLefty wrote on 06/12/2011 3:43 PM:
really good information!

 

I'm thinking of going to 3 1/2 span and 2 inches forward?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Regards,

 

Luckylefty

 


It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana


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Monster Stitch

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Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2011, 05:39:31 PM »
Xrayjay: I use the VISE IT system and my pitches are zero lateral and 1/8 forward. It's a huge difference and makes it so easy to lay the ball in your hand. In the past i've gone from 5/16 reverse to 3/16 to 1/8 to Zero and now 1/8 forward. No grabbing anymore. It's night and day. I've helped a few friends switched to forward and their bowling has changed a whole lot. It's never too late to change right away because you are always striving to get better.


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Mike Austin

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Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 10:16:11 PM »
I made a similar change about 2-3 months ago.  I play with my pitches a lot, I have trouble getting the right feel, I always seem to be squeezing.  My latest move went from 1/8 rev and 1/8 left to 1/8 rev and 1/4 left, thinking that would reduce rub on the right side of my thumb.  I was still having to use my thumb holes really tight.
 
About 3 months ago, I changed to 1/4 forward and 1/8 left.  I shortened my span 1/16.  This was a good change, but I added the 1/16 back in, and am now at 4 1/2 on both fingers.  I can use my thumb hole about a piece of tape too big and the ball hangs on to me, it feels really good.  I came in 4th in the second regional I bowled after a 3+ year lay off from PBA tournaments.  I shot 298/801 this week, and am not sharp at all, but the ball just comes off so clean, and I can really reduce my grip pressure.
 
I tend to agree with Ric.  Be careful when changing pitches like this and doing too much at one time.  I reslugged a junk ball and bowled with it before changing over any of my regular equipment.  I use the Vise IT in everything.  I'm very lazy about my stuff though.  The balls that had the IT in them just got reslugged to the new pitch.  Anything I have drilled new since have the IT and have had no problems with the IT system ever.  I did drill a couple new thumbs because the bevel was different at the top of the old ones.  I added the 1/16 back in my span AND reduced the bevel on the front of the hole.  I really want the ball to hold on to me.  I never have thrown the ball very hard, and my grip pressure has always been very light.  To me, this is the key!  You have to trust and let go of the ball.  But, in the long run, your reduced grip pressure will loosen your swing, increase your ball speed and revs.  LESS IS MORE!!
 
Sorry so long, hope this helps!!
 
 
 
 


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xrayjay

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Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2011, 09:47:00 PM »
 UPDATE:

We went forward by a good amount. I know several of you will disagree with this - that I went too far forward, or far forward too fast. But after throwing several frames/games, I finally got a pitch that felt comfortable with a clean release. I bowled several games during our match club away match and during practice over the weekend and I can't believe how well I'm rolling the ball.  The biggest difference with the change is my tennis elbow pain. It's not sore after 18-20 games over the weekend. (fyi, I struggled on the drier lanes in our match, couldn't keep balls to the right side of the pocket. I did better using polyester on the track, but it was too late).

I still feel I could go forward some more, but I'll bowl for several more times and see if I need to adjust span or pitch, or leave it done. Right now, my span hasn't changed. It actually feels better now than before. It was shortened a couple of years ago (1/16 & 1/8) and this caused me to squeeze even more (may have caused my tennis elbow.) But, because I had other important career priorities and the lack of quality drillers, or drillers willing to work with me in my area, I left it alone.

The end result is 3/8th forward from 1/4 reverse, a 5/8th difference. The new feel doesn't seem foreign to me for some odd reason. I've always felt I needed to go forward pitch because of the gripping sensation I would feel during my swing and release. Plus, my inconsistent roll and accuracy were the result of my squeezing most of the time. In the end, I'm glad I did this.

It's not over with tinkering with my pitch or span, this will take time to do. But for now, I'm liking very much what I feel and see. The amount of revs I generate without even trying is amazing too.. You're right Mike, "less is more"...




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