Post by: DP3 on August 21, 2006, 01:52:25 PM
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- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game
Post by: Juggernaut on August 21, 2006, 10:06:02 PM
Lots of balls in our house now have high pins over the bridge with the c.g. at 45* and the m.b. STRONG!
After a year of fighting the reaction I am getting, I am going back to basics myself this year. I am going to get a couple of balls, maybe 3 at most, and drill them with a basic label drilling and just use surface adjustments for carrydown issues.
Tired of fighting the wild hooking, monster flipping, powerballs they've been drilling up here lately. Maybe a saturn, venus, and mercury all drilled alike for rolling, arcing backends WITHOUT the "snap" off the dry boards.
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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
Edited on 8/21/2006 10:00 PM
Post by: charlest on August 22, 2006, 03:02:46 AM
My philosophy has almost always been that ball designers do not design balls so that you need to drill it with the PAP at 5" or at 2". If a ball overreacts when you put the pin at 4" or so from your PAP, then you bought the wrong ball.
Somewhere around 4-7 years ago, ball reps began suggesting that the Pros use their company's strongest (therefore their most expensive, therefore their biggest moneymakers, therefore their best balls) balls and put the pin at 6" from their PAP solely so they could them on the short, light oil that the PBA put out. Somehow this strange method caught on at the pro shop level and seems to have become the norm:
Drill the strongest ball you can super-weak and use it on the lightest oil you can.
Hey, virtually anything works for the bowler's with great games; We lesser skilled mortals -- not so much.
I say, buy the right ball for the condition on which you intend to use, for your style. Drill it with your favorite drill. Have one other drill for alternatives. Then bowl already.
We will all make mistakes in choosing the wrong ball once in a while. We will all want to try some fabulous new ball and force it to fit in whether or not it really does. Then you can try some exotic drill to make the ball usable for you. Otherwise, stick to basics.
Yeah, it's a bitter pill to swallow - buying only those balls suitable for your release/style/ballspeed plus your lane condition, but a sadder and wiser man am I.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 8/22/2006 2:58 AM
Post by: Noy on August 22, 2006, 03:45:20 AM
Action
Black Widow
Radical Inferno
Equation
4 balls, all have different reactions and cater to different oil patterns. Why would it be so bad to drill each ball the same?
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Bowling Since March 2006 - "Get coaching, don't worry about it"...blah blah balh...Just answer the questions please
Arsenal:
Storm Agent
Soon:
Action
Radical Inferno
Track Equation
Black Widow (May replace the Action or RI)
Turkey Adobo (Me and my friends' bowling site)
http://turkeyadobo.multiply.com
Post by: dizzyfugu on August 22, 2006, 03:47:18 AM
For medium conditions, pin 1" above the ring finger and CG/MB stacked works pretty well, on almost any ball so far.
I had my Sahara and Vicious Attack set up this way in my bag 2 weeks ago when I joined my club's championship, and these balls bombed me all the way to an obverall 3rd place in my average group with a total average of 190 through 16 games. Worked so well because I could switch between these balls (and my sanded Pure Hammer which has become a nice, arcing Sahara alternativ) at will and play lines between 2nd and 3rd arrow, adjusting to the changing lanes. It was just great and worked out the way I had planned it!
I think it is important to set up competition balls in a conservative fashion. It is a consolation to have balls at hand of which you know that they work for you, and how, on a wide range of conditions. Specific drills can[/] be a good thing, but for a tournaments with so many unpredictable factors at hand (especially in a foreign alley), the more "simple", the better IMHO.
This is also a mental thing, and that's at least 50% of knocking down all 10 pins again and again.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Team "X" website & more about me: http://web.mac.com/timlinked/iWeb/X/Thomas.html
"The Future's So Bright I Gotta Wear Shades"
- PatMacDonaldPost by: mab on August 22, 2006, 04:51:07 AM
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X's for show, /'s for dough
ROTO GRIP KING OF THEM ALL
Post by: DON DRAPER on August 22, 2006, 10:37:00 AM
Edited on 8/22/2006 10:32 AM
Post by: Goof1073 on August 22, 2006, 11:58:43 AM
http://www.jeffcarterbowling.com/Arsenal2.html
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-Chris: DJ's Pro Shop : Auburn, MA
Post by: shelley on August 22, 2006, 12:03:52 PM
But what about drilling a ball to enhance it's built-in characteristics? Balls that are designed to be long and strong (a la the Xception or X-factor), give them pin-up drillings with strong MB placements. Balls that are early and arcy like the UI, give them pin-down, MB-towards-VAL layouts.
SH
Post by: BigHorhn on August 22, 2006, 01:00:33 PM
I plan of separating the reaction on my bowlingballs by the surface (reactive, particle, solid or pearl) and go with the same drill (label). 2cents
Post by: charlest on August 22, 2006, 01:47:06 PM
quote:
What about the notion of drilling your strong balls strong and your weak balls weak? I agree that buying a strong ball and killing it with a 6" pin-to-PAP distance and eight coats of polish seems silly given that a lot of other balls naturally suit that condition.
But what about drilling a ball to enhance it's built-in characteristics? Balls that are designed to be long and strong (a la the Xception or X-factor), give them pin-up drillings with strong MB placements. Balls that are early and arcy like the UI, give them pin-down, MB-towards-VAL layouts.
SH
I disagree.
Enhancing a strong ball and weakening a weak ball, at the very least, spreads their utility further apart. A weak ball is already weak; often this means a very low RG differential and a high RG. Making the RG higher and reducing the RG differential by weaker pin position seem to have little obvious effect other than giving you yet another exotic drilling to kepe track of.
The same goes for putting a very strong drill, like rev-leverage, on an already strong ball. It makes useless on anything except a total flood and how often do you face that?
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: CoachJim on August 22, 2006, 02:27:13 PM
4 3/8" and in a ball that flips I would use a 3 1/2 to 4" pin buffer in a pin out ball which would put the cg close to the mid line and the pin above the fingers and on a ball that has arc characteristics I would use less of a pin buffer like 1 to 1 1/2" in a pin out ball which puts the cg on the mid line and kicked toward the pap or in the thumb positive quadrant if I want more flare, and the pin is below the finger holes. These drillings help enhance what the ball is designed to do.
For refference I am a medium rev bowler around 300 to 350 rpm. If you have more revs you will probably need a longer pin to pap distance and if you have less revs you will need a shorter pin to pap distance.
Then you have your extreme condition balls like Charlest was talking about ie the 6" pin above the fingers drilling in a weak ball for extreme dry and a leverage drilled aggressive ball for floods, but for an every day arsenal that fits 90% of most condtions, you will do well to buy balls that fit the condition or reaction that you are looking for and drill the ball to enhance what the ball wants to do. This way you will be less likely to have duplicate balls in your arsenal.
Post by: JohnP on August 22, 2006, 03:45:13 PM
Post by: RSalas on August 22, 2006, 03:49:00 PM
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...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "Poöter Boöf" before that...
Post by: Bluff on August 22, 2006, 03:58:46 PM
quote:
Is anyone going back to basics? After looking at my long list of equipment and taking notes of gaps in what reactions I needed and was looking for I came to realize that just about everything is a bit too exotic, layout wise. I am revamping everything I have for the fall season. The only two balls I am keeping from last season are a Rush and Classic Zone which both have the same type of layout. I'm staring at 4 balls that I have to punch before next week when leagues start and I think I'm just going to go back to basics instead of trying all the fancy mumbo jumbo. Anyone else going back to basics(ex. label leverage no x-hole, pin over bridge, pin near axis)?
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- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game
Unless diffrent pattern every 4 weeks why bother with Fanncy layout???? Lable drilling will do best on THS
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an undrill ball for me is like having hot naked chick in front of me and not have sex with her! Yea I got Balls!!!
Edited on 8/22/2006 3:53 PM
Post by: kmanestor22 on August 22, 2006, 05:19:15 PM
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Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
Post by: CoachJim on August 23, 2006, 03:43:46 AM
quote:
CoachJim -- Now, I may be wrong, but I think pin buffer is the distance from the pin to the VAL. I did a quick check at a couple of we sites but didn't find a definition. Pin height is the distance from the pin to the midline. Please let me know if this is right. -- JohnP
The guy who drills my equipment showed it to me and is how he does it which is where I got these measurements, I think he got it from one of Storm's drilling sheets and prefered doing it that way instead. I have also heard it measured from the VAL, but of course that would be different measurements than what I gave and without the proshop tools at my disposal here to go and measure myself, I can't give those to you.
I personaly don't see a difference one way, you measure down from the pin and put a mark for your midline, and the other you starting off by putting a mark up for your val and tracing it around and measuring to the line and putting a mark on the line for the pap at what ever distance you are using to the pin it seems it to me it is a matter of prefference. You could probably do one against the other to double check before you drill if you knew what both distances should be.
Post by: JohnP on August 23, 2006, 04:24:10 PM
Post by: CoachJim on August 23, 2006, 05:47:01 PM
quote:
CoachJim, -- You're right, it's just a matter or terminology. But if we're not all using the same definitions for terms, we'll have mass confusion. -- JohnP
Understood, I wasn't getting testy, just clarifying. From now on I will just say pin above, below or on the finger line.
