Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 11:19:15 AM

Quote from: Impending Doom on January 13, 2015, 10:12:30 AM

Short pins to pap are usually condition specific. I drilled up a Grip It trying to smooth out the left to right, and going up the lane the ball checked up too soon, and if I tried to go left to right, it didn't have enough to get around the corner. If you're looking to manage flare, you can either go with a lower diff core and still drill it strong, IE a Scream, Tropical Breeze, Strike King, and adjust the cover (sanding with the initial track) to get it thru the fronts cleaner, and be smoother on the back.

But I also agree with northface. A simple hand position change could allow you to stay with the ball drilled rico and get a totally different reaction.

This is exactly why when I have drilled a couple balls with the pin at 2 inches from PAP; I have done it with weaker balls.  I have never drilled anything higher end with a 2 inch layout.  I had an Ebonite Black Ice drilled that way and it was far and away the best ball I had for both house and tournament conditions when I wanted to square up.  Cover was weak enough to still push through the fronts but the backend reaction was super smooth yet just enough angle to kick the 10s. 

The key now to get smooth rolling balls; is balls with very low diffs and/or balls drilled with the pin below the fingers in order to lower the overall diff (take a ball with a diff of .040 or lower and drop the diff almost in half by putting the pin between the fingers and center of grip).  My two smoothest rolling balls right now are a Deep Freeze (.029 diff OOB) and a Take Down which is box finish but pin below the bridge to cut the diff down.  Another thing to add is take the shine off a ball if it comes out of the box shiny to also smoothen out the backend.

I dont understand this, pins below the fingers flare significantly more than balls with pins above the fingers, i.e below the bridge vs over bridge. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Using your theory.

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 11:43:05 AM

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 11:19:15 AM

Quote from: Impending Doom on January 13, 2015, 10:12:30 AM

Short pins to pap are usually condition specific. I drilled up a Grip It trying to smooth out the left to right, and going up the lane the ball checked up too soon, and if I tried to go left to right, it didn't have enough to get around the corner. If you're looking to manage flare, you can either go with a lower diff core and still drill it strong, IE a Scream, Tropical Breeze, Strike King, and adjust the cover (sanding with the initial track) to get it thru the fronts cleaner, and be smoother on the back.

But I also agree with northface. A simple hand position change could allow you to stay with the ball drilled rico and get a totally different reaction.

This is exactly why when I have drilled a couple balls with the pin at 2 inches from PAP; I have done it with weaker balls.  I have never drilled anything higher end with a 2 inch layout.  I had an Ebonite Black Ice drilled that way and it was far and away the best ball I had for both house and tournament conditions when I wanted to square up.  Cover was weak enough to still push through the fronts but the backend reaction was super smooth yet just enough angle to kick the 10s. 

The key now to get smooth rolling balls; is balls with very low diffs and/or balls drilled with the pin below the fingers in order to lower the overall diff (take a ball with a diff of .040 or lower and drop the diff almost in half by putting the pin between the fingers and center of grip).  My two smoothest rolling balls right now are a Deep Freeze (.029 diff OOB) and a Take Down which is box finish but pin below the bridge to cut the diff down.  Another thing to add is take the shine off a ball if it comes out of the box shiny to also smoothen out the backend.

I dont understand this, pins below the fingers flare significantly more than balls with pins above the fingers, i.e below the bridge vs over bridge. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Using your theory.

No they do not.  Even according to Blueprint; if you put the pin below the fingers the diff decreases fairly significantly.  My Take Down with a pin down 5 inches from PAP only flares about 3 inches at the most and that is even with a P3 hole which is supposed to increase flare.  I have seen the Blueprint software with multiple balls.  Flare on every ball decreased when putting the pin below as opposed to above.  Watch the vids of Radicals Score and Guru.  They even post what the differentials are with the pin down and pin up balls.  The Guru pin up was over .06 differential.

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 11:43:05 AM

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 11:19:15 AM

Quote from: Impending Doom on January 13, 2015, 10:12:30 AM

Short pins to pap are usually condition specific. I drilled up a Grip It trying to smooth out the left to right, and going up the lane the ball checked up too soon, and if I tried to go left to right, it didn't have enough to get around the corner. If you're looking to manage flare, you can either go with a lower diff core and still drill it strong, IE a Scream, Tropical Breeze, Strike King, and adjust the cover (sanding with the initial track) to get it thru the fronts cleaner, and be smoother on the back.

But I also agree with northface. A simple hand position change could allow you to stay with the ball drilled rico and get a totally different reaction.

This is exactly why when I have drilled a couple balls with the pin at 2 inches from PAP; I have done it with weaker balls.  I have never drilled anything higher end with a 2 inch layout.  I had an Ebonite Black Ice drilled that way and it was far and away the best ball I had for both house and tournament conditions when I wanted to square up.  Cover was weak enough to still push through the fronts but the backend reaction was super smooth yet just enough angle to kick the 10s. 

The key now to get smooth rolling balls; is balls with very low diffs and/or balls drilled with the pin below the fingers in order to lower the overall diff (take a ball with a diff of .040 or lower and drop the diff almost in half by putting the pin between the fingers and center of grip).  My two smoothest rolling balls right now are a Deep Freeze (.029 diff OOB) and a Take Down which is box finish but pin below the bridge to cut the diff down.  Another thing to add is take the shine off a ball if it comes out of the box shiny to also smoothen out the backend.

I dont understand this, pins below the fingers flare significantly more than balls with pins above the fingers, i.e below the bridge vs over bridge. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Using your theory.

No they do not.  Even according to Blueprint; if you put the pin below the fingers the diff decreases fairly significantly.  My Take Down with a pin down 5 inches from PAP only flares about 3 inches at the most and that is even with a P3 hole which is supposed to increase flare.  I have seen the Blueprint software with multiple balls.  Flare on every ball decreased when putting the pin below as opposed to above.  Watch the vids of Radicals Score and Guru.  They even post what the differentials are with the pin down and pin up balls.  The Guru pin up was over .06 differential.

Quote from: J_w73 on January 13, 2015, 02:00:28 PM

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 09:45:04 AM

Will people ever alter their releases instead of looking for magic layouts or balls?

I'm sure you only have and use one ball then?  Am I correct?

Nice try, Im smart enough to know my limitations and don't think some magical layout or ball will make up for my shortcomings.

I have a slingshot and an outcast both drilled with the pin 2 inches from
my pap. Very smooth rolling balls.

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 02:34:43 PM

Having just watched the video of the Guru on youtube; ball starts with .044 diff.  The pin up drilling increased the diff to .064 and the pin down ball decreased the diff to .030.  That is a huge difference.

Am I wrong in assuming higher diff equates more flare?