Author Topic: smoothest layout? (Read 25051 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** January 13, 2015, 01:43:34 AM »

I have used a pin at center grip to create a smooth layout with some success. This puts the pin 5 inches from my PAP. This works best with short pins to where a weight hole isn't needed as a weight hole usually increases the flare and asymmetry and causes more movement.

Does anyone have any feedback on how a 1 3/4 pin to pap would differ in reaction? I know it would put the core in a low rg orientation. It should also have similar flare to the 5" pin to pap. Is there an issue with the pin possibly locking onto the PAP?

What layout do you use when you want to smooth out the reaction and take as much flip out of the ball as possible?

JustRico · « **Reply #31 on:** January 13, 2015, 03:26:16 PM »

It's not one thing it's everyone offering 'THEIR' opinion and honestly all that does is create confusion...ball layouts and creating motion are individual but only because those offering opinions and that's what it is, is offering individual circumstances
Now lets say I offer an educated response....9 posts will contradict it off their personal experience where mine is one down thru proper evaluation instead of what I want to see...
I'm not trying to insult this but at some point it turns into a pissing contest

JustRico · « **Reply #32 on:** January 13, 2015, 03:30:19 PM »

And learning is understanding each individual situation is different and understanding takes more than me posting so someone can learn...it's taken me over 35 yrs on every different level of competition and in different positions...
That's what gets disturbing is the amt of responses how many are incorrect

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM »

Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing. Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though. Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

J_w73 · « **Reply #34 on:** January 13, 2015, 03:45:02 PM »

Quote from: JustRico on January 13, 2015, 03:26:16 PM

It's not one thing it's everyone offering 'THEIR' opinion and honestly all that does is create confusion...ball layouts and creating motion are individual but only because those offering opinions and that's what it is, is offering individual circumstances
Now lets say I offer an educated response....9 posts will contradict it off their personal experience where mine is one down thru proper evaluation instead of what I want to see...
I'm not trying to insult this but at some point it turns into a pissing contest

It wasn't a pissing contest. People are just asking questions and giving their personal experience. Some people know the science of it and others just know what they do and what works. I find this very valuable in that if I find someone that has similar specs and "style" that I do , I can maybe use something that they do and benefit from it. I understand that what works for one person will not work for everyone. Yes there is a scientific absolute. I lean toward using science to explain what is going on with the ball reaction. I think I have pretty a good grasp on the physics behind everything but don't know everything.

JustRico · « **Reply #35 on:** January 13, 2015, 03:50:00 PM »

Surface is the largest effecter of ball reaction....you can smooth reaction by lowering surface
Secondly if bowling ball does not slow properly, the core/layout will not effect the desired reaction properly
Weight holes tend to effect reaction after the ball slows but also dependant on existing flare
One issue I see with layouts is they are not adjusted correctly using a weight hole-take a 1.5-2.5" pin to pap layout...more times than not a weight hole is not facilitated thus the flares stay tight creating a quicker response
Too many times, bowlers not understanding weight hole effect shy away improperly...weight holes make the ball hook earlier or more...not always nor only effect they have

JustRico · « **Reply #36 on:** January 13, 2015, 03:51:10 PM »

My reference to the pissing contest occurs when either a post is explained correctly and another gets defensive assuming all is directed towards them...

J_w73 · « **Reply #37 on:** January 13, 2015, 03:53:58 PM »

Quote from: JustRico on January 13, 2015, 03:30:19 PM

And learning is understanding each individual situation is different and understanding takes more than me posting so someone can learn...it's taken me over 35 yrs on every different level of competition and in different positions...
That's what gets disturbing is the amt of responses how many are incorrect

Maybe bowlingchat.net is more your style forum then. I'm sure they would love to have you as a contributor. They seem to take problem solving from an individual perspective. Working more one on one with someone and fixing their problem based on their individual stats.

northface28 · « **Reply #38 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:04:06 PM »

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM

Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing. Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though. Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.

J_w73 · « **Reply #39 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:08:07 PM »

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 04:04:06 PM

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing. Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though. Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 04:04:06 PM

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing. Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though. Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.

What is your PAP?

cheech · « **Reply #40 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:14:06 PM »

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 04:04:06 PM

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing. Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though. Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.

i didnt read this whole thread so maybe it was already addressed but pin up or down does not affect the amount of flare a ball gets. its the pin distance from the PAP.

northface28 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:14:32 PM »

Quote from: J_w73 on January 13, 2015, 04:08:07 PM

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 04:04:06 PM
Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing. Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though. Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.
Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 04:04:06 PM
Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing. Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though. Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.
What is your PAP?

4 1/2 Over

JustRico · « **Reply #42 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:16:53 PM »

You have shown ONE ball that data have been shown pin up vs pin down...overall any holes drilled into the core effect it...if the pin placement is 1" above or below the gripping holes the effect on the core is going to be similar...

JustRico · « **Reply #43 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:21:48 PM »

Thank you Cheech I meant to post that earlier...great point

J_w73 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:25:20 PM »

Quote from: JustRico on January 13, 2015, 03:51:10 PM

My reference to the pissing contest occurs when either a post is explained correctly and another gets defensive assuming all is directed towards them...

got it man. I hear you. Sometimes you just have to ignore posts. It is better than letting it get to you. You can't help everyone and can't help people that don't want help. There is nothing wrong with intelligent debate though. Sometimes that is hard to do well through text. Sometimes questions come off as disagreeing or argumentative, when they are just questions.

JustRico · « **Reply #45 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:31:04 PM »

J W I shall not disagree with that post whatsoever

Author Topic: smoothest layout? (Read 25051 times)

J_w73

smoothest layout?

JustRico

Re: smoothest layout?

JustRico

Re: smoothest layout?

TWOHAND834

Re: smoothest layout?

J_w73

Re: smoothest layout?

JustRico

Re: smoothest layout?

JustRico

Re: smoothest layout?

J_w73

Re: smoothest layout?

northface28

Re: smoothest layout?

J_w73

Re: smoothest layout?

cheech

Re: smoothest layout?

northface28

Re: smoothest layout?

JustRico

Re: smoothest layout?

JustRico

Re: smoothest layout?

J_w73

Re: smoothest layout?

JustRico

Re: smoothest layout?