That's what I meant abt specific situations vs history...I know that 3.375" creates the highest potential for flare and deviating minimizes flare and effects shape...I know that I have a better chance of effecting reaction with surface more than anything...I know I can effect reaction with a weight hole depending on initial amt of existing flare...
I work with the mindset of whats gonna give me the most options? A 4.5-5.5" (rev dependent) pin to pap is safe in managing flare...and after surface too many times I see over flaring (too much flare from too strong a pin to pap placement or too close to leverage) ill effecting down lane motion
So you can make it as sexy as one wants, but there are simplicities to this game that no one can argue and yet too many try...

Quote from: J_w73 on January 13, 2015, 04:08:07 PM

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 04:04:06 PM

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM

Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing.  Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though.  Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 04:04:06 PM

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM

Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing.  Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though.  Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.

What is your PAP?

4 1/2 Over

Seems normal enough. What is your release tilt?  I was talking to somebody about and may have a reason to what you see.   What is the size of your thumb hole? Do you use a thumb slug? Do you use finger grips?

Quote from: J_w73 on January 15, 2015, 11:47:05 AM

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 04:14:32 PM

Quote from: J_w73 on January 13, 2015, 04:08:07 PM

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 04:04:06 PM

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM

Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing.  Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though.  Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 04:04:06 PM

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 03:41:00 PM

Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing.  Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though.  Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.

What is your PAP?

4 1/2 Over

Seems normal enough. What is your release tilt?  I was talking to somebody about and may have a reason to what you see.   What is the size of your thumb hole? Do you use a thumb slug? Do you use finger grips?

I do you use thumb slugs and recently went back to finger grips.The shrinking and swelling in the winter made the finger holes too big initially when I would bowl.

The person I was talking to was saying that if you had finger grips with deep finger holes and a small thumb hole, that the finger holes could lower the differential more than the smaller thumb increases it, thus giving you the results that you see.

I don't know if this will help or not but I had a Brunswick Rhino Pro LE drilled with the pin about 1.5" to 2" from the pap.  It was one of the strongest balls I've ever owned.  I could sand it and use it on heavy oil or add some polish and go to medium conditions.  The flare was in the 4" range.  Have not tried this drilling on any of my newer equipment but I am thinking about plugging an Ebonite Mission X and drilling it this way.

What was the reaction shape that you saw out of it?  That is the important part.

Quote from: tdub36tjt on January 13, 2015, 06:40:55 PM

Not trying to start anything Rico just want your opinion. But what do you think of the powerhouse blueprint track flare study? They seemed to show higher pins having more flare vs lower pins so just curious if u felt the study was flawed?

For those interested and haven't read here's the above article

Bowling Ball Track Flare Explained:
An Analytical Study of Core Dynamics and Modern
Layout Methods and Their Combined Effect on Track Flare

http://blueprintbowling.com/Documents/Bowling%20Ball%20Track%20Flare%20Explained.pdf

Quote from: thedjs on January 15, 2015, 02:31:02 PM

I don't know if this will help or not but I had a Brunswick Rhino Pro LE drilled with the pin about 1.5" to 2" from the pap.  It was one of the strongest balls I've ever owned.  I could sand it and use it on heavy oil or add some polish and go to medium conditions.  The flare was in the 4" range.  Have not tried this drilling on any of my newer equipment but I am thinking about plugging an Ebonite Mission X and drilling it this way.

What was the reaction shape that you saw out of it?  That is the important part.

I'd say it was a hard turn (banana shape) when it was sanded and a little skid/flip (hockey stick) when polished.  Bear in mind that I don't have a lot of speed and probably only average revs.   

Great article, I think.  Can't read it!

Regards,

Luckylefty