Author Topic: Full-Roller layout? (Read 7364 times)

Strapper_Squared · « **on:** May 08, 2006, 04:24:31 AM »

I have drilled up several balls for a teammate of mine. He is a lefty, full roller. I have mainly used two "standard" FR layouts. The first being the standard cg in center of grip and pin in the 4:30 position (relative to the center of grip... righties would be towards 7:30). The second layout I have used is putting the pin 10 1/8" from the center of grip in the 2:00 direction relative to the center of grip (again this is for a lefty). This puts the pin roughly 3 3/8" beyond his axis, with a weight hole somewhere between the pin and the center of grip, depending on ending static weights.

I'm looking for a different layout, to try and give him a little different look. I saw on the legends website a layout with the pin/cg directly in the track (for him it would have the cg in the center of grip and the pin at rooughly 1:30...basically a righties label leverage)... this would be like a 6 3/4" pin to PAP distance... lots of length and low flare. I would try this layout, but he's left handed, so usually has lots of oil and really doesn't need anything to go all that long (plus he has several mild pearl balls for drier lanes)... Its an option, but not probably not the best for him.

Would it be possible to do a "stacked" layout relative to his track? Looking at the grip, his track goes right of the grips and left of the thumb though the center of grip. How about putting both the pin and mass bias 4" from the track in an 11:30 direction (assuming pin would be closer to thumb and mass bias closer to fingers)? I have an older killer instinct pearl plugged up and ready to drill, so I can try something out... if it doesn't work, its not a big problem... Any ideas?

Thanks,
S^2
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-Strapper Squared

Most important game on the schedule: Sept 24th...

Roto-Mat · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2006, 03:48:14 PM »

That would be interesting to see. The main reason for "weird" Full Roller layouts is to manipulate the balls flare so that it does not hit the finger or thumb holes. I don't know if a KI would be a good ball to experiment with since it flares so much (or on the other hand, since it flares so much this would be an ideal ball to try it on because if this layout doesnt hit any holes then it should be safe on most other balls as well). With this layout, where do you think the bowtie would end up at?
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Mat Henning
Roto-Grip Staffer
Owner/Operator of
Champions Bowling Services

Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2006, 04:16:44 PM »

quote:
With this layout, where do you think the bowtie would end up at?

Good question.... I'm not 100% sure that there is any way (besides trial and error) to determine this? Well, the ball companies may have a simulation program capable of estimating this (if they don't it would be a useful tool for these types of problems AND for equipment layouts for staffers!)....

I think I'm going to give it a shot.. we will see what happens. Maybe I'll take my digital camera along to get some photos!

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-Strapper Squared

Most important game on the schedule: Sept 24th...

Roto-Mat · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2006, 04:34:05 PM »

Whats the pin out distance on your KI that you are thinking about drilling? I think I might be able to guess where the bowtie will end up depending on how far out the pin would be. Im guessing the pin is 2-3" from the CG?
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Mat Henning
Roto-Grip Staffer
Owner/Operator of
Champions Bowling Services

Mike E · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2006, 05:02:32 PM »

Strapper, I have played around with full roller drills to some extent. I'm a righty with a pap of 6&1/4 over, 1&1/2 up. My ball speed is around 14 mph give or take. I tried the 10&1/8" drilling on a plum proactive. This seemed to go longer(almost too long for my liking) unless you had a very light oil shot.I've also tried the 3&3/3 pin to grip center on all kinds of balls(AMF Victory SPT, Monster Bruiser,HPD,HPC,Stinger Low Flare Particle,)and probably more that I can't remember.These drills really hook a ton but the downside is they are so early.With my ball speed this was always a problem.I started using 2" pin to center of grip 7:30 alingment with much more success. Ball still has a lot of backend but not nearly as early.I will tell you on a side note something interesting that I discovered concerning coverstock adjustments and the 7:30 or in your case 4:30 pin placements. I have an HPD and HPC drilled 3&3/8 pin to grip center(7:30 direction) that hooked too much and too early for me.I took them both up in grit with brand new trizact all the way to the white one(10,000 grit I believe). No difference in reaction!Unbelievable right!I've put lots of different surfaces on balls that I've drilled conventionally and have been able to adjust their reactions but not those full roller drills? Ball always seemed to want to take the same path no matter the surface.Strange Huh? Hope this helps.
Mike E
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Did you know that you can't see pigs in a windstorm?

Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2006, 05:08:02 PM »

Interersting... I wonder if the high load particle had anything to do with the early roll and in ability to get the ball down the lane? Although it would seem like the trizact should help... I guess we all find a few of those balls that just seem to give us fits, regardless of what we try....

the pin out distance of the killer instinct is roughly 3.5" (if I remember correctly).

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-Strapper Squared

Most important game on the schedule: Sept 24th...

Mike E · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2006, 05:14:32 PM »

I even drilled a sonic X and a sonic boom 3&3/8 pin to grip center. Could barely throw the X on a med. light shot and the boom was unusable. Took those covers up to 4000 abralon with storm delayed reaction. No difference!
Good Luck,
Mike E
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Did you know that you can't see pigs in a windstorm?

Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2006, 11:09:10 AM »

Ok... I punched the KI peark up yesterday after work. I wanted to place the pin and mb "stacked" in relation to the track. I drew a line from the pin, through the mass bias and marked the mid point of this (3 3/8 from either). I drew a line 90 degrees to the pin/mb line, through the mid point, measuring 3 3/8" to either side. I marked one side of this line as the axis and the other side of the line as the center of grip. A line 45 degrees to the line ending at the center of grip would be the grip line and a line 90 degrees to the line ending at the center of grip would represent the initial ball track of a full-roller. I layed the ball out based upon the center of grip and grip line... the pin ended up roughly on the midline. The cg of the ball was located above and left of the ring finger (lefty layout), and the mass bias was located above and between the fingers. Due to the cg location, I drilled the ring finger hole extra deep, the middle finger hole just deep enough to fit an insert into it, and the thumb hole as shallow as possible. The ball ended with 1.5oz pos side and 1.5oz finger and just under 1oz top. I placed a weight hole at the far end of the line running from the center of grip through the mid point of the pin/mb line at 6 3/4" from the center of grip (on the axis).

Unfortunately, I was unable to make it to the lanes to actually see the ball in action. The initial report from the guy throwing the ball was that first and foremost, it does roll between the fingers and thumb and doesn't roll over or flare over the fingers or thumb (I was unsure about that). Supposedly the ball gets more length than any of this other drillings, but then seems to have "late" revs, giving it a pretty strong backend. His description sounds like the MoRich control drill... I'm going to be bowling a tournament with him this weekend... He was impressed enough with it, that he's taking it along this weekend.. so I will get to actually see it in action. I may be on to something here... LOL

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-Strapper Squared

Most important game on the schedule: Sept 24th...

Edited on 5/10/2006 11:07 AM

Author Topic: Full-Roller layout? (Read 7364 times)

Strapper_Squared

Full-Roller layout?

Roto-Mat

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Strapper_Squared

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Roto-Mat

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Mike E

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Strapper_Squared

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Mike E

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Strapper_Squared

Re: Full-Roller layout?