Author Topic: Span Question? (Read 23104 times)

tloy · « **on:** July 08, 2012, 06:58:33 PM »

What effect, if any will shortening my span by 1/4 " make? I several balls with a 4 1/2 cut to cut and several newer balls( different driller) where the span is 4 1/4 cut to cut. The shorter span does not seem to carry as well( maybey it is my imigagination). Looking for opinions/advice.. Thank you

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2012, 08:43:25 PM »

Shorter span will lead to more spinning. Often bowlers today put less lataral thumb under palm pitch in their not so full spans.

Regards,

Luckylefty

notsohotshot · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2012, 08:57:44 PM »

Why did the new driller make it shorter? Was it by mistake? I know for me that I don't get as much lift on the ball with a shortened grip.

Dave81644 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2012, 10:21:48 PM »

For me, shortening my span (3/16")
was to get me out a little cleaner, I tend to muscle it and turn it pretty good
Was a great adjustment for me
I dont see any difference in carry or RPM
I am trying to have as little grip pressure as possible while still holding onto the ball throughout the swing
And this helped

tommyboy74 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2012, 10:37:00 PM »

When I switched to my current driller, my grip was shortened about 1/8" and the pitches were changed slightly in my thumb. I get out of the ball much cleaner now, have very little grip pressure, and I can still get a good amount of revs.

notsohotshot · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2012, 10:50:57 PM »

I'm glad that shortening your span has helped a couple of you but it seems to have hurt a couple of us also. Mo Pinel had me shorten mine 6-7 yrs ago and my avg dropped 10-15 pins for the rest of the season. needless to say it took redrilling to my original span and working on my new game all summer to get my game back.

He had never seen or drilled for anyone that is double-jointed in the fingers and thumb or can lay their hand flat on the table thumb and middle finger before .

@@@What works for some surely does not work for everyone@@@@

jman6982 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:14:50 AM »

I recently had a Roto Grip Bandit drilled and the span was done about a quarter of an inch too short and the ball would hook off the lane for me. I had it drilled weak and it was just about the strongest piece I own which sucked cause that isnt what I wanted it to be. Took it to a different pro shop and had the span changed to lengthen it and now the ball is awesome. What happened with me with the shorter span was that my thumb was coming out of the ball too soon and that resulted in me putting a ton of lift on the ball and couldnt get the speed I need with the revs I have. Just my two cents worth

Dave81644 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2012, 06:49:08 AM »

Seems this is where the pro shop professional comes in
My grip was shortened after a lesson with Steve Richter
And he was cautious about me doing it, had me do a ball that wasn't a primary piece in case I just didn't like it

I ended up doing them all it felt so good.

definitely a feel thing IMO

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2012, 12:53:04 PM »

It really depends on how your span was at first. If you were stretched then shortening it should help you.

In my opinion your span should be "relaxed", so make certain that wherever you end up it's the proper fit, then any adjustment period should be shortened assuming your mechanics are good.

Fitting hands is rather subjective, and drillers will vary with what seems to work for them and their clients. If you find a good pro shop then stick with it because experimenting can be both good and bad.

notsohotshot · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:58:34 PM »

Relaxed is a subjective term,at is relaxed to some may be long for others. A so called relaxed span for me doesn't work well because of my double-jointedness so hand flexability etc has to be taken into account,but don't just keep shortening the span if it doesn't feel good. Nothing feels right after you have used a different span for any long length of time,even a wrong span...

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2012, 04:18:09 PM »

tloy,

One test you can do to check span length is to insert your thumb all the way into the thumb hole. It may be easier for the ball to rest on a table or counter top. Next lay your fingers (don't stretch) across the finger holes. Your crease from the appropriate joint should hit midway in the finger hole. The reason for "midway" is to allow for the joint to bend. For most people this is a good starting point. You can also tweak pitches to create the right feel.

I have measured hundreds of hands over the years. There are some who post here who have not. Best of luck to you as you work with your grip/span.

notsohotshot · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2012, 05:56:46 PM »

i TOO have measured hundreds if hands and have found that half way between the 2 joints is too short, 3/4 or a little less is a better fit.

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2012, 06:17:43 PM »

notsohotshot,

Not trying to argue with you, but better for who? I did not say midway between the two JOINTS. I said the CREASE on the finger would fit about midway across the finger hole.

We are all different. That is why I said it's a starting point. Unless you have the hand in front of you, and know more about the bowler's game, it's probably futile to try to fit someone's hand from this forum.

I give the information to the original poster to do what he wants with it. If it helps then fine. Like I said before, fitting hands is very subjective. You do it your way, while someone else does it their way. There is no "right way" except the one that works for this particular bowler.

PM sent.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2012, 11:34:41 AM »

Bill Taylor does a nice job describing the feel of a proper span on the fingers in his classic book,Fitting and Drilling a bowling ball. (Many will say the book is very old OK)

Page 16-18 discusses the issues above very clearly and completely!

Bill points out that the standard of 3/8 of an inch over the center of the hole is PERFECT for conventional grips because of the flexibility of the 2nd joint is right near 90 degrees.

He goes on to say on page 17 that in a fingertip the first joint near the finger tip will not bend at 90 degrees and since the TWO joints are taking up the 90 degrees of bend together thus forming a SLIGHT ARCH. This arching slightly reduces the span in relation to the 1st joint near the fingertip.

This is why he mentions that the 3/8 inch last joint over the lip of the hole which is so perfect for conventional grips does not apply to the fingertip. He much like NotClay below mentions a starting point of the midway point of the last two joints being just over the lip.

Going on he states on page 18 of this great book is that the FINAL test is that where the bowler feels the pressure on the first joint during the swing! He states,
"As the bowler swings the ball, with minimum hand squeeze, the pressure should be on the first third of the fingertip section NEAR the joint!". Here he shows a picture of pressure or weight of the ball closest to the joint closest to the fingertip.

On page 19 he goes on to state, "Then as the thumb departs, the pad of the fingetip will exext consistent lift". At this point he shows a picture with the complete area of the tip of both fingers feeling uniform pressure.

Finally on page 19 he shows pressure on just the tips of the fingers. He describes as during the swing the ball resting on the final pad of the fingers completely and then during release shifting just to the final 1/3 of the tips as being a slightly too narrow span.

Final thought from me..
Bill admits that the 1/2 point is just a starting point. Bowlers such as NotSoHotShot and me ofter find because of very flexible joints near the fingertip(I've got them too) that our fingers can take up a little more span than this starting point.

Bill states that by following this procedure most bowlers end up within 1/16 of their ideal span. He then goes on to state AGAIN on page 28 that the final test is the pressure during the swing BEFORE the thumb comes out is NOT on the full pad of the last pad of the fingers but closer to the joint. THEN the last feel is of the ball AFTER the thumb comes out, being on the full pad! NOT just the last part of the fingertip. (This for me is the most important thought for my own grip).

I hope this has been helpful. Note many bowlers today seem to go a little shorter than this. However I note that to my humble eyes Pete Weber seems to take every bit of a full span and last I heard some people have thought his release looked pretty good!

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS in describing taking the span measurement Bill Taylor states on page 22
"Insert the thumb, and while the bowler keeps his thumbface in contact with the wall of the hole, and center finger fully stretched, note where the span mark falls on your measuring device. Do this several times until a measurement repeats. Do the same with the ring finger.

Just like NotClay above he describes a span mark for the fingertip as dead center of the last two joints. Differing with him he notes with the center finger fully stretched.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2012, 08:25:53 AM »

Luckylefty,

Just a few more thoughts, and to clarify after rereading these passages and the notes of NotClay who is a professional driller. I am not, only a hobbyist who sees my hand and at most a couple of friends and my son a year(no thumber,..too easy)(we have a great driller, bowler where I fling).

After reviewing these notes and then testing the feel of my balls I found that for ME both his method of a relaxed stretch of the fingers and getting the last joint CREASE over the center of the hole, then doing the Bill Taylor method of a full stretch of each finger and putting the mid point of the 2nd from the tip portion of the finger over the lip yielded essentially the same results!!

In my case the Bill Taylor stretch puts my last joint crease PAST the mid point of the hole about 1/8 of an inch, the relax puts the crease RIGHT TO the middle of the whole.

I at this time believe however that both methods show I have pressure on the wrong place(very tip) on my mid finger at the point of release(afer the thumb has come out!). This indicating to me that this span is probably slightly short.

I also note considerably more arching in that finger! I will test these concepts and report back. Note I have often used the 2nd test or the 5/16 test to determine the relative lengths of my span, but I am starting to think that the "pressure" or final test as advocated by Bill Taylor as the final test of a proper grip may be the key as he states in his book.

To the professional drillers like NotClay who see hundreds of hands a year and produce great results for a very high percentage I say kudos to your skill, touch and artistry. I admire it! Putting it into practice like you do every day is what it is all about.

REgards,

Luckylefty

Author Topic: Span Question? (Read 23104 times)

tloy

Span Question?

LuckyLefty

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notsohotshot

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Dave81644

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tommyboy74

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notsohotshot

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jman6982

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Dave81644

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BallReviews-Removed0385

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notsohotshot

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