Author Topic: Pin to PAP (Read 4035 times)

Jay · « **on:** December 22, 2008, 05:54:34 PM »

I know longer pin to PAP distances make a ball go longer. But is that all it does, or does it also increase backend/angularity or make the ball more responsive to dry?

The reason I ask is because I've typically had issues matching up to pearls as well as I feel I should. My latest pearl in the bag(which has particle) is drilled 4 1/2" pin up, which is the least amount any pearl I've had has been drilled. The problem is it seems really sensitive to dry and a little sensitive to oil and I wonder if that's due in part to the pin distance. It's likely also my VAL angle of 35 degrees. I have yet to try the ball polished. I gotta wonder if I'd match up with pearls better if I drilled them with stronger pin positions, despite what my style(earlier roll) suggests.

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2008, 06:10:59 AM »

The lower flaring you drill the ball, the more reliant it's going to be on friction to make its turn. The longer the drill layout, the more reliant on friction it's going to be to make its turn. If you use a longer pin to PAP, you may need to use more surface. Looking at your profile, your game sounds somewhat similar to mine. For comparison's sake, in general whenever I throw pearl equipment, I like to use a lower underlying grit and a light coat of polish (i.e. 1000 abralon plus polish by hand with Snake Oil, or use Resurrection then polish by hand for a little extra length), or I use 4000 abralon or 2000 abralon for a little less push through the heads if I need to cut through carrydown a little better. This gives me more control and less reliance on friction, which improves my carry and gives me more options.

Jay · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2008, 07:51:14 PM »

1000 Abralon plus polish is the next surface I was going to try. I've tried 2000 and 4000, any sign of dry in the heads and it straightns out giving me an inconsistent reaction. This happened to me on the scorpion just recently at 20ft and I wanted to throw the ball out to the parking lot. While the ball currently, at 4000 abralon, works okay when it gets down the lane, I feel like my Rival(even though it's stronger in general) can out-perform it in just about any situation.

I would hope the 1000 polished surface would give me more ease through the heads and a look that I can use more often.

Anyways, I just can't help but think the drilling(60 x 4 1/2" x 35 dual angle) is part of the reason for my problems. The pin is about 1" above the ring and I wonder if a pin position like that is making the ball harder to control. It works on my local house shot and the Viper so far. I guess I'm sorta stuck with a condition specific ball, probably even after I adjust the surface. It'd just be kinda nice to figure out if more of a control layout would make pearls more playable for me, for future reference.

bluerrpilot · « **Reply #3 on:** December 24, 2008, 08:19:43 AM »

quote:
I know longer pin to PAP distances make a ball go longer. But is that all it does, or does it also increase backend/angularity or make the ball more responsive to dry?

Pin distance from pap dictates flare. Pin distance or angle to VAL dictates response to friction.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

JustRico · « **Reply #4 on:** December 24, 2008, 09:00:49 AM »

Pin to PAP distance dictates amount of flare.
Side or axis rotation is what enhances response to friction.
Amount of grit, on coverstock, dictates how quickly this response happens.

If a bowler is dead up the back of the ball (or 0 to very low side or axis rotation), their bowling balls respond to friction slower and more throughout the length of the lane.
If a bowler has a higher amount of rotation, similar to Pete Weber, their response to friction is faster and more distinct. Generally farther down the lane.
In both instances, surface can be used to adjust the speed the ball transitions or slows down, in response to whatever it comes into contact with, i.e. conditioner or friction.
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Formerly BrunsRico

Z Jellsey · « **Reply #5 on:** December 24, 2008, 09:08:58 AM »

4000 is not "surface" especially for a low rev player on the Scorpion. I am a pretty high rev player and 4000 to me is "gleaming"! Try at least 1000 with polish. If that isn't enough try 500 w/polish. I have several balls at 500 and 500 w/polish several more at 1000 and 2000. 4000 is a pad I very rarely touch!

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2008, 12:11:12 PM »

quote:
4000 is not "surface" especially for a low rev player on the Scorpion. I am a pretty high rev player and 4000 to me is "gleaming"! Try at least 1000 with polish. If that isn't enough try 500 w/polish. I have several balls at 500 and 500 w/polish several more at 1000 and 2000. 4000 is a pad I very rarely touch!

Interesting when I consider this post, and the previous post made by Rico. I went the opposite way I.E. use higher grit pads-I have nothing below 2000. I thought it was better for me since I'm pretty high speed/high rev as well. not to mention, I have very minimal axis rotation.

This helps to explain some of the issues I've been having. I'll try something different this Friday.
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Does it really matter?

JustRico · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2008, 02:15:17 PM »

If you are a high rev player and have a decent amount of side rotation, the smoother the surface on the ball, the more the ball will spin in the conditioner and respond quicker when it sees friction or more drastically. The enviroment is accentuating what the smoothness is already creating. A little surface will help the ball slow down in the conditioner, as well as not be as responsive when it sees friction. Which smooths it out front to back in regards to the lane.
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Formerly BrunsRico

Jay · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2008, 04:46:32 PM »

So what does flare translate to on the lane? It seems like the more flare the more total hook? If that's right, then longer pin distances create less hook and a slightly longer breakpoint while smaller ones create less hook but a shorter breakpoint. Do I have that all right?

Aise from that I think maybe I should start using VAL angles that create smoother transitions on pearls, to make them more controllable. As for my ball, it seems like my 4000 abralon surface allows more friction response than I want at times. Sounds like 1000 polished is a viable answer, but now I think I've got an idea of how to better lay out pearls for me.

agroves · « **Reply #9 on:** December 25, 2008, 06:42:59 AM »

Pin to pin placement controls flare
Flare helps control SHAPE of ball reaction
--1" pin to pap(lower flaring) rolls very early and slowly arcs to the pocket
--4" pin to pap(high flaring) reads the midlane well and has an aggressive backend
--5.5" pin to pap(low flaring) reads the midlane late and has a later backend.

Coverstock still controls around 65% of overall reaction.
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Lillen · « **Reply #10 on:** December 25, 2008, 06:51:26 AM »

http://marketing.lanemasters.com/LM_Ball%20Drilling%20Instructions_09.pdf
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Author Topic: Pin to PAP (Read 4035 times)

Jay

Pin to PAP

Dan Belcher

Re: Pin to PAP

Jay

Re: Pin to PAP

bluerrpilot

Re: Pin to PAP

JustRico

Re: Pin to PAP

Z Jellsey

Re: Pin to PAP

Xcessive_Evil

Re: Pin to PAP

JustRico

Re: Pin to PAP

Jay

Re: Pin to PAP

agroves

Re: Pin to PAP

Lillen

Re: Pin to PAP