BallReviews

General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: lil League Coach on June 19, 2015, 09:35:28 AM

Title: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: lil League Coach on June 19, 2015, 09:35:28 AM
I'm looking for some suggestions from you guys on increasing axis tilt.  I have a customer with extremely low tilt and I have a couple of ideas I was pondering but I would to hear what worked for you guys.  Any suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Here are the stats I measured:
Ball speed - 17mph
Rev rate - 300
Axis tilt - 6 degrees
Axis rotation - 70 degrees
Pap- 5 1/4 x 1 1/8 up
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 19, 2015, 10:20:05 AM
From his specs it appears he's staying in the thumb too long thru the rotation - 1 1/8" up coordinate and 70 degrees of rotation
Does his wrist break at the bottom or his elbow follow the hand?
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: lil League Coach on June 19, 2015, 12:07:58 PM
Thumb is 1/4 forward but doesn't seem to hang in the ball..elbow follows the hand up the back (tried different hand positions but still not enough)
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 19, 2015, 12:10:07 PM
The most logical way for an up coordinate that much with that type of rotation is the hand being on the side of the ball at release
1/4 forward is a slowing release angle
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: lil League Coach on June 19, 2015, 12:33:11 PM
Should I back it off to an 1/8th... I know MO's philosophy is to roll everything 1/8 to help you get around it easier?
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 19, 2015, 01:03:57 PM
Don't know Mo's philosophy only what a hand requires to release the ball properly
What's his ring finger span? What's his thumb and finger laterals?
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: lil League Coach on June 19, 2015, 02:38:25 PM
Final span: 4 5/16 x 4 1/2
Pitches: fingers 3/8 lateral 1/2 reverse
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 19, 2015, 02:51:08 PM
What's his thumb lateral?
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: lil League Coach on June 19, 2015, 03:46:42 PM
Zero lateral
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 19, 2015, 03:49:04 PM
To me those specs and not knowing his flexibility or anatomy but those angles are keeping him in the ball too long thru the rotation in my opinion
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: lil League Coach on June 19, 2015, 03:52:44 PM
Ok sounds good!! Thanks for the help
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: J_w73 on June 20, 2015, 02:31:33 AM
please let us know what you adjust and how it works out.
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: lil League Coach on June 21, 2015, 11:42:44 AM
I'm waiting on a few other replies...but I think I will back the thumb off a bit to 1/8th and see if I can see a different roll with him
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: J_w73 on June 21, 2015, 12:23:06 PM
I know for me, going more right in the thumb(right handed) really increased my tilt and lowered my track. Just did the same thing for my dad and he went from 3 degrees to 12 degrees. Some say it locks you in but if it is what your hand needs it seems to work.. I'm 3/4 right and clear the thumb fine.. Went from 1/8 to 3/8 right for my dad. Recheck his thumb lateral and see if he could stand to go a bit right..

Also is there a chance the span is a bit long?  I wouldn't think based on the thumb forward, but I know when my span was stretched I would come around the side of the ball and had very low tilt..

Maybe the ring is long..or the middle is too short?

Don't take any of this as gospel. Just throwing some ideas to maybe think about.
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 21, 2015, 12:34:47 PM
Adding right lateral will increase the potential of over rotating and/or going over the top of it due to decreasing the release speed...
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: J_w73 on June 21, 2015, 12:47:11 PM
Adding right lateral will increase the potential of over rotating and/or going over the top of it due to decreasing the release speed...

Anything is possible. I know for me at 0 or 1/8 right in the thumb it slowed my release because my thumb was not at the correct angle for my natural release. Not until I started going right in my thumb is when my thumb started to free up and I could turn the ball from behind the ball.. Instead of having to get on the side of the ball to get out if it. I know it sounds opposite of the norm.
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 21, 2015, 12:54:52 PM
He already has an extreme up pap coordinate - which translates to his thumb staying in the ball too long thru the rotation plus an extreme amt of rotation, which in my experience his thumb is already staying in too long thru the release
There are always going to be anomoly's (btw I'd never got anyone with 3/4" lateral - too extreme) and extremities only increase potential for inconsistency...
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: J_w73 on June 21, 2015, 01:00:59 PM
He already has an extreme up pap coordinate - which translates to his thumb staying in the ball too long thru the rotation plus an extreme amt of rotation, which in my experience his thumb is already staying in too long thru the release
There are always going to be anomoly's (btw I'd never got anyone with 3/4" lateral - too extreme) and extremities only increase potential for inconsistency...

Couldn't the up cooridinate be a function of the angle that his fingers are applying pressure and releasing? That is why I mentioned the spans as well.

I know. I'm extreme. Was dealing with my fit for a very long time and not until I went to 3/4 right everything fell together and started working..  Love for you to take a look at my grip and see what you think.
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 21, 2015, 01:02:49 PM
The fingers laterals merely effect fit/comfort and yes span can always effect it but the thumb is the first to exit the ball and the longer it stays in the thru the rotation unnaturally, the more it effects the coordinates
An extreme up coordinate mimics a full roller release...as an example
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: J_w73 on June 21, 2015, 01:11:53 PM
The fingers laterals merely effect fit/comfort and yes span can always effect it but the thumb is the first to exit the ball and the longer it stays in the thru the rotation unnaturally, the more it effects the coordinates
An extreme up coordinate mimics a full roller release...as an example

I agree with the mimicing the full roller.  Don't full rollers tend to have a large clt or offset thumb on their hand ? That is how my dad was and going more right in his thumb brought his grip more down the T line and moved his track off his thumb and increased his tilt.
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 21, 2015, 01:13:18 PM
It's a round object there is no such thing as an offset
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: J_w73 on June 21, 2015, 02:01:58 PM
It's a round object there is no such thing as an offset


Yes I know. I agree with you. I know the measurement is taken off the T-line regardless of what you want to call it. I was talking about the hand, not the ball.  I was talking about the thumb being offset left of the natural line of the fingers on the hand. Creating a large CLT angle when referring to the ball.
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: J_w73 on June 21, 2015, 02:05:02 PM
It's a round object there is no such thing as an offset

I'm in the Sacramento area.  I know time is money.  PM me with how much you would charge to take a look at my current grip and equipment, measure my hand and refit me,  and give recommendations on where you think my grip should be.  Thank you
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 21, 2015, 02:06:22 PM
One million dollars (:
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: J_w73 on June 21, 2015, 02:21:27 PM
One million dollars (:

My bowling is worth a lot to me, but I can't manage that.
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: JustRico on June 21, 2015, 02:23:36 PM
Ok...
Title: Re: Suggestions on increasing axis tilt
Post by: J_w73 on June 21, 2015, 02:38:41 PM
Ok...

Do you know of anyone that you could recommend that is well versed at fitting odd hands?  Anywhere in the USA.  Or let me know if you have a more realistic price.