BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: Mike E on August 26, 2012, 11:09:40 AM
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I have had quite a few symmetric balls. Asymmetric not so much. My favorite drill for the lane conditions I now face is 120 X 6&1/4 X 40 with a symmetric core. I've always heard that if I drill an asymmetric 6/1/4 pin to pap it will actually hook more than the symmetric. Is this true? What would be an equivalent drill for asymmetric to my favorite symmetric drill? Thanks for any help. Mike E
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First,...... thats a HUGE drill sum!!!! lol! 160!!!! Your Throw Bot must be set to Robert Smith! Ok, funs over. The longer you put the pin from the PAP on an Asym (up to 6 1/4, I believe) the more the ball will flare (meaning more of the ball will touch the lane). As you move the pin on an sym. the flare reduces, once you go pass 4". With the 120x40 on sym you would take 5 away from the drill angle and add that 5 to the VAL angle. So, your 120x6 1/4x40 that you like on syms would be 115x6 1/4x45 with your asym. im not sure exactly how the pin would correlate with layout however. With the pin being so long on the sym, I'm assuming you would shorten the pin on the asym. What reaction are you experiencing between the two?
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Thanks for the Robert Smith compliment. Wish I deserved it but I don't. My ball speed is on the slower side due to a back injury. Add to that very little oil on the lanes. My question really has to do with the pin to pap length.I have drilled asymmetric cores with a 6 inch pin to pap distance and they were virtually unusable for me because they hooked way too much. My benchmark drill for this house with a symmetric core is 120X6&1/4X40. Would 120X3/4X40 be the same if the core was asymmetrical? Thanks, Mike E
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Well, you still want to do the subtract and add for the drill and VAL angles. Once you go beyond 3", you start maximizing the flare of an asym. 3 1/4 would probably be pretty decent for what you are looking for. That and/or a p1 weight hole to reduce the flare. Surface will also be the key with the lack of oil on the lanes.
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Thanks righty for the reply. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought 3/4" pin to pap was minimum flare on a asymmetrical and 6&3/4" pin to pap was minimum flare on symmetrical.Since I am using symmetrical balls drilled 6&1/4 pin to pap I am 1/2" from minimum flare. So I thought if I drilled asymmetrical 3/4 + 1/2= 1 &1/4" pin to pap it would be the same. What are your thoughts? Thanks Mike E
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Thanks righty for the reply. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought 3/4" pin to pap was minimum flare on a asymmetrical and 6&3/4" pin to pap was minimum flare on symmetrical.Since I am using symmetrical balls drilled 6&1/4 pin to pap I am 1/2" from minimum flare. So I thought if I drilled asymmetrical 3/4 + 1/2= 1 &1/4" pin to pap it would be the same. What are your thoughts? Thanks Mike E
Track Flare Chart for symmetrical and asymmetrical balls:http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=File:Trackflarechart.JPG (http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=File:Trackflarechart.JPG)
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@effin,) thanks.
@mike,) You are correct. Asyms 3/4" (min) to 6 1/4 (max). Sym 3/4-3(min to max) and 4-6 1/4(max to min). Your math is warranted and i do believe that it can work, considering your not looking for the flare. I would try it with an old asym or cheap track. All their stuff is asym and roll pretty well. That way, if you like it you can continue it. However, make sure you include your driller on your research and get his opinion.
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Thanks to both you guys for the replies. Much appreciated.
Mike E
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Are you saying that the strongest pin position for an assumetric ball is 61/4?
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Are you saying that the strongest pin position for an assumetric ball is 61/4?
Yes, its is. Once you go beyond that, it gets iffy.
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There is more to track flare than just the pin distance on a asymmetric ball. This document shows real world examples of track flare on a symmetrical, weak asymmetrical and strong asymmetrical ball.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bowling_Ball_Track_Flare_Explained.pdf
Enjoy!!
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I have that article in my notes. Its a long read but very informative.
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There is more to track flare than just the pin distance on a asymmetric ball. This document shows real world examples of track flare on a symmetrical, weak asymmetrical and strong asymmetrical ball.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bowling_Ball_Track_Flare_Explained.pdf
Enjoy!!
I like that article, it does fill in some blanks for me. I do have one question though. They say that they are using Scorpion for their pattern, which is a 41 foot pattern. That leaves 19 feet of backend. If you look at all the plots, the flare in oil is almost equal to the flare in dry .... umm I don't believe that. I understand that balls rev up as the go down the lane, but I don't see how you can get equal flare in the oil and the dry on a 41 foot pattern. Can anyone guess as to how that might happen?
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Flare is not dependent on friction. If a bowler lofts the ball way out on the lane it will "flare in the air". -- JohnP
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Flare is not dependent on friction. If a bowler lofts the ball way out on the lane it will "flare in the air". -- JohnP
I get that part, but the graphs show flare in oil and flare in the dry and they are basically 50/50. I did not use to a ruler to confirm, but if you eyeball it, I think you will agree. if over 2/3rd of the lane is oil, and 1/3 is dry then the ball has an AVERAGE of half the revs in the oil as it does in the dry. It could be true, but I wouldn't believe that without some numbers to back that up. I know the ball revs up as it goes down the lane, but it would have to more than double it's initial rev rate to have an average that is twice as much in the dry as in the oil.
Perhaps I am missing something? I just wanted some clarification.
I did actually go back and eyeball the graphs some more and there are tables at the end that give the flare in oil and flare in dry and they are not exactly 50/50 all the time. So I guess I need to look at those number a little closer.
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This video will help...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8soXaercu8&list=PLB0F709E848F857D6&index=1&feature=plpp_video
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This video will help...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8soXaercu8&list=PLB0F709E848F857D6&index=1&feature=plpp_video
I sincerely appreciate your attempt at helping, but he didn't talk about flare in oil versus flare in dry, and why they are so similar in that pdf. That is what I am asking about.