Post by: LuckyLefty on October 14, 2004, 03:45:51 AM
You see the proper lateral thumb pitch allows one to use there natural anatomy in their favor and if set properly allows the bowler to easily and naturally get the fingers around the side of the ball so that the arm can travel up the path of the ball(or even to the outside of the ball slightly and give the ball enough side turn to get back to the pocket). This proper motion is analgous to the inside out swing in golf. Those with the proper grip can return the clubface to square or slightly closed to the path of the clubhead swing and get the ball to draw(hook). Those with the improper grip cannot swing on the inside path and get the ball to hook, they can only hook if they pull the ball.
So it is in bowling. Those without this position properly set for their anatomy cannot properly get their arm to swing inside out and still hook the ball without all sorts of compensations. (Why make it hard).
Thus the Coke bottle test to determine the proper lateral pitch! Very good substitute for the fitting ball.
Many people however have trouble with the coke bottle test. Recently one of our users on this site JJWEB was trying to fix pitch and span. Honestly looking for help he sent pictures to our community asking for help.
I think I and some of the in the business drilling daily gurus have maybe helped him. I also pointed out to him his incorrect steps in performing coke bottle test and hopefully helped him do it correctly.
He was nice enough to allow me to use his pictures to illustrate how not to do the coke bottle test and how to do it right! This is not meant to insult him but only to possibly help others! I thank him for his pictures!
Here we go.
1st attempt
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxMTk4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
This won't do, this bottle way smaller than a 16 ounce or 20 ounce coke bottle does not even cause the user to grasp it with the thumb. Object is just in palm of hand. Falsely gives a result of 1/8 lateral out.
2nd attempt
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxNjg1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
This won't do either, this LARGE 24 ounce coke bottle does not allow grasping with the thumb also giving a false result of 1/8 lateral out!
3rd attempt
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAyMDYzNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
Ah hah finally a bottle that allows grasping a 16 ounce bottle!!!
The coke bottle at 16 ounces to 12 ounces is still thebest!
But now we see the real result. Thumb TIP points at his RING finger!
Well that is a big difference! That calls for 3/8 lateral right.
Quite a difference from our first result of 1/8 left lateral.
I've made some recommendations based on these pictures to Mr. JJWeb lets see how things shake out!
Thanks JJ.
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS hope this helps somebody!
PPS again the final test is to go out to your center and see where your arm travels in relation to your ball path. Here is a great test if you have the resources to do it!
1. Drill up 3 to 4 balls exactly the same except for lateral thumb pitch. Since I test at 1/4 lateral under palm(left for me) I bring balls set at 0, 1/8 lateral under palm, 1/4 lateral under palm and 3/8 lateral under palm.
2. Throw each one being careful to monitor where your arm travels inrelation to the ball path. All of a sudden you will see it!
The balls with too little lateral under palm for you will NOT hook back if you swing your arm to the outside of the ball path even the least little bit! The balls with Too much lateral under palm pitch will always have to be thrown with your arm traveling well outside the proper ball path and will make it hard to stay behind the ball if you decide to do that. Finally with just the proper lateral under palm pitch your arm will be able to go straight up the ball path or just slightly outside the ball path and still return the ball back to the pocket.... ah perfection. (note the answer does not HAVE to be lateral under palm, it more often is but it does not HAVE to be for your anatomy).
This exercise is so much easier to do with golf. We just take a student and teach him how to swing the club thru the tee spot on an inside to out line.
If he slices we strengthen the grip until the ball starts to return back towards the target(the perfect small draw). We don't have to bring four sets of grips etc.
However the concept is the same! Bon Appetit!
Post by: J_Mac on October 14, 2004, 11:55:57 AM
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It's kind of hard to read the lanes if you don't know their language...
Post by: intergalactic on October 14, 2004, 11:58:47 AM
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Faster than a bullet
Terrifying scream
Enraged and full of anger
He's half man and half machine
Rides the metal monster
Breathing smoke and fire
Closing in with vengeance soaring high
www.JudasPriest.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 14, 2004, 12:03:26 PM
Another thing that works is if you have an additional arm.
Grab your forearm with your bowling hand at the spot where your thumb almost touches your fingers this works absolutely great also!
REgards,
Luckyl
Post by: intergalactic on October 14, 2004, 12:09:40 PM
--------------------
Faster than a bullet
Terrifying scream
Enraged and full of anger
He's half man and half machine
Rides the metal monster
Breathing smoke and fire
Closing in with vengeance soaring high
www.JudasPriest.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 14, 2004, 12:17:02 PM
A bowler should have his hand properly fitted the first day he has his first new ball from throw 1! His driller should watch the results of his handiwork and verify arm is travelling properly in relation to ball path!
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: J_Mac on October 14, 2004, 12:20:23 PM
Thanks LL, you da man!
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It's kind of hard to read the lanes if you don't know their language...
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 14, 2004, 12:27:24 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
One should be able to distinguish between on index finger, between index and middle, on middle etc.
Post by: J_Mac on October 14, 2004, 12:33:18 PM
I was on hold with the bowling alley trying to get on a squad for Ebonite Demo Days tomorrow and wasn't paying attention. How about between middle and index?
--------------------
It's kind of hard to read the lanes if you don't know their language...
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 14, 2004, 12:37:42 PM
The table goes like this
Index finger = 1/8 lateral out(left for righties)
Between Index and middle = 0
Middle = 1/8 lateral under palm(right for righties)
Between middle and ring = 1/4 lateral right for righties
Ring = 3/8 lateral right (or lateral under palm)
and so on.
Your answer!! 0!
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: intergalactic on October 14, 2004, 12:54:06 PM
--------------------
Faster than a bullet
Terrifying scream
Enraged and full of anger
He's half man and half machine
Rides the metal monster
Breathing smoke and fire
Closing in with vengeance soaring high
www.JudasPriest.com
Post by: T-GOD on October 14, 2004, 12:58:22 PM
The first pic of jj holding a spray bottle is the correct interpretation of the coke bottle test, in my opinion. In the third pic, jj is squeezing the ball/bending his thumb joint. Not only that, his thumb is not laying flat on the bottle. His thumb is tilted and the side of his thumb is touching the bottle, not the flat, gripping part.
Pitches are not used to just fit a persons hand, they're designed to allow for a different release. Meaning, anybody can use almost whatever pitch and span they'd like..!! It just depends on how they want to release the ball.
Different pitches and spans will dictate how you need to release the ball, giving you a different ball reaction from each release and/or pitch/span.
Let's take for an example a person with a "hinged"/"double jointed" thumb. This person has great flexibility in his thumb. So, when he puts his hand in the ball, he's able to touch his palm to the surface of the ball, laying his hand flat on the ball. This person is going to have a lot of forward roll on the ball, because he can basically palm the ball.
Now let take for example, a person with a very stiff thumb, kinda like jj. When he puts his thumb straight down into the ball, his palm is not even close to touching the surface of the ball. The ball is laying differently in this persons hand, vs. the person with a hinged thumb. Therefore, it will be nearly impossible for both bowlers to release the ball the same way.
As a matter of fact, the person with his palm off the ball will be more like a spinner or have a lot of axis tilt. For the most part, bowlers with more forward roll usually have a stronger ball and/or more revs on the ball, because they are more behind the ball at release.
So, because bowlers hands are different, bowlers who were born with certain hand characteristics will naturally have a better release than some other bowlers. In order to compensate for this, different pitches and beveling techniques need to be employed to "level the playing field" so to speak.
If it's more desirable to have your palm laying more flat on the ball, because now you can get more forward roll and less axis tilt, the person with a stiff thumb is at a disadvantage. So, in order to get this persons hand more flat on the ball, they have to use some away pitch, as well as reverse combined with bevel, to have his hand laying more flat on the ball.
Like I stated earlier, pitches and spans are designed to help in releasing the ball in a desired manner. We're not locked into 1 set of spans or pitches, limiting us to 1 type of release, based on how we were born..!! We can utilize pitches, spans and bevel to make up for what God gave or didn't give us naturally. =:^D
Edited on 10/14/2004 12:50 PM
Post by: No Fear on October 14, 2004, 01:04:11 PM
Post by: Brian362 on October 14, 2004, 01:20:49 PM
quote:
Different pitches and spans will dictate how you need to release the ball, giving you a different ball reaction from each release and/or pitch/span.
Now let take for example, a person with a very stiff thumb, kinda like jj. When he puts his thumb straight down into the ball, his palm is not even close to touching the surface of the ball. The ball is laying differently in this persons hand, vs. the person with a hinged thumb. Therefore, it will be nearly impossible for both bowlers to release the ball the same way.
As a matter of fact, the person with his palm off the ball will be more like a spinner or have a lot of axis tilt. For the most part, bowlers with more forward roll usually have a stronger ball and/or more revs on the ball, because they are more behind the ball at release.
So, because bowlers hands are different, bowlers who were born with certain hand characteristics will naturally have a better release than some other bowlers. In order to compensate for this, different pitches and beveling techniques need to be employed to "level the playing field" so to speak.
If it's more desirable to have your palm laying more flat on the ball, because now you can get more forward roll and less axis tilt, the person with a stiff thumb is at a disadvantage. So, in order to get this persons hand more flat on the ball, they have to use some away pitch, as well as reverse combined with bevel, to have his hand laying more flat on the ball.
=:^D
Edited on 10/14/2004 12:50 PM
I have a lot of axis tilt and my palm doesn't touch the ball very much, if at all. Does this mean that my span could be wrong? Or should I say, could my span and pitches be "better?"
--------------------
Brian362
Post by: JackDeJack on October 14, 2004, 01:22:34 PM
New measurment give me 1/16 right, and its comfort for me.
Can it be reason why my old bal is hooking to little than I expect ???
--------------------
_____________________________________
No Split's Too Wide, If You've Got The Balls !!!
Po t³umaczeniu na polski taci sens
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 14, 2004, 01:58:45 PM
Just as in golf there is a naturally starting point.
For many people around 2 1/2 knuckles of the left hand tweaks are done to not only determine comfort but also to tweak ball flight and the corresponding concept applies in bowling.
Bill Taylor in his book believes this too! However I believe there is a mid point and a natural most correct point and tweaks are made around this midpoint!
For example if you are a 3/8 lateral under test and you start at 1/8 lateral out you are going to have problems. Tweaks around the 3/8 mark are going to work better for you.
I never suggested forward pitch for JJ web maybe someone else did.
As far as the test before I put this post up I looked at Mr. Taylor's book and reverified that Bill gave his analysis of thumb lateral pitch for the coke bottle test exactly as I described it. That being the Tip of thumb when grasping(actually some closing or grasping of thumb) was the method. That is verified in his book via very detailed pictures.
I actually happen to have a thumb that is more flexible and longer in relation to the rest of my hand than Mr. JJ but mine points very similarly. I do not use my result but I come close. I point (tip of thumb) to between ring and middle and use 3/16 very happily. 1/8 lateral out, 0, .... Fahget about it!
REgards,
Lcukylefty
As far
Post by: DP3 on October 14, 2004, 03:03:54 PM
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-DP3
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 14, 2004, 03:52:09 PM
Also you point in a coke bottle as described above one inch above index?!?!? Wow, that is a new record! Someone had asked me the most out and the most lateral under.
You have the prize! I have never seen that!
REgards,
LUckylefty
Post by: DukeHarding on October 14, 2004, 04:21:43 PM
Makes bowlers think . . . (off the lanes).
--------------------
Duke Harding
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 14, 2004, 05:09:49 PM
I always am interested in knowing/learning your viewpoints.
I have gone back and reread your post. A question that comesto mind regarding tweaks for a flat hand is the one regarding lateral out for stiff thumbs!
Is that an always? Does this happen even if a person has a coke bottle test that is with the thumb at the ring finger? Doesn't the bowler then end up with a clipped thumb nail. Or does a large amount of bevel in the corner of thumbhole prevent the clipping of the opposite corner of the thumb tip.
The concept that I have experienced is that if the thumb goes one way and the barrell of the thumbhole is another way then there is a place at the top of the hole where the thumb hits and the nail on the opposite side of the hole hits also. When I put my thumbholes near 0 (I test at 1/4 lateral under) is where I start to experience this diagonal action thatBill Taylor illustrates in his book. Concept and drawing almost looks like a pickle(one's thumb) laying diagonal in a barrell.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Luckylefty
Post by: T-GOD on October 14, 2004, 06:12:23 PM
To me, every thumb will point to the ring finger if you bend it, if it's not already pointing there in the first place. If the thumb is flat on the coke bottle, then it will point more towards the ring finger. These are usually more of a hinged thumb.
Stiff thumbs, like jj's, don't lie flat on the bottle, as you cannot see his thumb nail lying flat, it's off to the side. Stiff thumbs will not usually pint towards the ring finger, unless you bend the knuckle.
If you rotate a stiff thumb (jj's hand) so that the thumb nail is flat on the bottle, his palm will come off the bottle and his fingers will be kicking way out to the right. If you were to use zero or 1/4 right pitch in a stiff thumb, without much bevel, you'll need roughly 1/2" right pitch in the middle and 1 1/4" right pitch in the ring finger to really feel comfortable.
But, like I stated earlier, you'll have a whole lot of axis tilt in your release using pitches like those. This is not desirable very often.
If you want your hand flat and have a stiff thumb, you will need some left pitch and a lot of bevel at about 1:30 and 4:30 positions of the thumbhole. With the bevel and some left pitch, you'll be able to roll the base of the thumb over the top edge of the thumbhole, enabling you to get your palm flatter on the ball.
You could do it with extreme pitches, left and reverse, but with your thumb pointed so far to the left, you'll really have to cock your wrist and rotate your hand around the ball much closer to a 90 degree rotation, to keep the outside left tip of your thumb from clipping the side of the hole. If you try to stay too straight behind the ball, you'll definitely clip the corner of your thumb.
I don't have anymore time to write now, so I'll stop here and we'll pick it up at a later time. =:^D
Edited on 10/14/2004 6:08 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 14, 2004, 06:23:47 PM
When you get some time I hope you will clarify.
Are the pitches you are referring to all for righties?
Along with the bevel tips regarding the clock.
Could you clear that up for me. I believe those pitches and bevels are not intended for this lefty but for the stiff thumbed righty.
REgards,
LUckylefty
PS I test a lot of people that grasp coke bottle up near index finger or space between index and middle with their thumb in the grasping position thus ending up right near 0.
Post by: baiki on October 14, 2004, 07:24:04 PM
Thanks for this interesting and informative thread.
I have a very stiff thumb. If I hold the base of my right thumb with my left hand, I can only move my right thumb maybe 10 degrees. Only way I can bring my thumb in is using the joint at the wrist. After years and lots of balls and drillings later I'm settled to a short fingertip span and lots of right pitches to both fingers. Just as T-God said I have lots of axis tilt and a low track. It's OK for drier conditions but not so great on long oil. Tried 0 degrees axis rotation but track still stays low. At least now I know it's the finger pitches that causes this.
Looking forward to more discussions on this.
--------------------
baiki
"Faulty mechanics makes all balls bad." Bill Hall, BTM Dec. '98
Post by: omegabowler on October 14, 2004, 07:30:06 PM
what I do to a golf course, is not considered golf and have no intention of learning golf. so all the analogies to golf confuse the issue.
Thanks is advanced.
also I heard about changing pitches to change reactions. any thoughts on how?
since this thread has drilling guru's. I have seen mention of measuring the pap form the first oil ring and measuring from the last oil ring to change reactions.
any thoughts on that( one that don't use a golf grip!
)--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Post by: T-GOD on October 14, 2004, 07:53:23 PM
Post by: jjweb on October 14, 2004, 08:42:52 PM
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!
Post by: JohnP on October 14, 2004, 11:33:18 PM
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on October 15, 2004, 08:14:08 AM
This is a little bit off topic:
From the way your middle finger looks(the blood build up under your finger nail) it looks like your span for that finger is probably stretched too much.
What do you think of that lefty?
-EX-
--------------------
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Track Intl.-Advisory Staff
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 15, 2004, 08:42:35 AM
The King of mill even pined that the incredible overstretch of ring was chiming in on the problem. All gurus agreed a dramatic shortening was in order.
I've heard from the helpful JJ and he has made changes and loves feel but has not thrown. Ball reviews anxiously awaits his progress. "No pressure".
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS John P I agree with you you right on that the fitting ball is best! Also I like the bowling position to rolling up in a ball test. This seems to always confirm my coke bottle test. I also love to have a customer grab their forarm from underneath
PPS I guess JJweb went to his ball driller and said I want to make changes, head of pro shop(not original driller) says "Right lateral for you?", "No Way".
"I do my own tests", tosses him quick an Umbrella and watches how he catches it! "Ooops I guess you do need lateral right he says!
Anyway the jist of the afternoon of the top dog driller was pretty much a shorter span, lateral right in thumb and some moderate reverse due to a fairly stiff thumb.
Amount of reverse right close to BT span pitch tables.
Ball reviews waits!
Post by: jimensminger on October 15, 2004, 09:18:36 AM
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www.dynothane.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 15, 2004, 09:32:00 AM
Great post, I was aware of the pros changing finger pitches forward and reverse for more lift or less depending on condition.
I had not heard of quick changes to thumb pitches.
Either here or in another post, maybe you could elaborate on changes that you know are being made for ball roll tweaks.
Thanks,
Luckyl
Post by: jimensminger on October 15, 2004, 10:13:28 AM
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www.dynothane.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 15, 2004, 10:21:33 AM
Great info from a phenomenal tournament bowler!
REgards,
Luckylefty
Similar to what golfers do from shot to shot to change shape.
Always starting with their core or optimal grip position and then tweaking around it!
Awesome!
Post by: jimensminger on October 15, 2004, 10:38:05 AM
What I'll sometimes suggest for customers that are looking for "more hook" is a pitch change that will allow them a little more revs, and a faster release..Rather than buying a new ball, we'll just "soup-up" the old one..
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www.dynothane.com
Post by: JohnP on October 15, 2004, 12:06:20 PM
quote:
For the average bowler with 5-6 balls bowling a couple leagues a week, this might be a little much.
You are dealing with a lot different "average bowler" than I (and I suspect, most other ball drillers) am. My "average" customer - if there is such a thing - has at most two balls, and wants to replace one of them. He/she bowls in one league and averages 175 (male) or 145 (female). They are either satisfied with their grip, that makes it easy, or have a problem with either the thumb or a finger that is hurting their hand. What they want is a grip they can use without pain. Many are moving up from urethane to their first reactive resin ball. Now admittedly my shop is "out in the hicks", but I don't think I'm that much different than others. And in defining my "average" customer, I have eliminated the beginning youngsters that are buying a 10 lb Maxim with a conventional grip. They are probably at least 40% of the balls I sell. Now, that's the level bowler I'm talking about when discussing fitting. I have maybe three customers that might possibly benefit from adjusting pitches to change reaction, and they wouldn't spend the $$$ to try it. -- JohnP
Post by: DP3 on October 15, 2004, 12:26:13 PM
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-DP3
Post by: jimensminger on October 15, 2004, 12:57:55 PM
hole is a little too big, with too much bevel, and a span that's a pinch too short. And they like the lifts good and tight for that good lift...Each bowler is different in their likes and dislikes,..and yours is a tough job trying to put their hand in a bowling ball so that it will strike, feel good, fit all the time, and be the least of the worries,....good luck.
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www.dynothane.com
Post by: onlybowling on October 17, 2004, 10:28:58 PM
Please keep this discussion going.
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OnlyBowling
Post by: JohnP on October 18, 2004, 11:54:52 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 18, 2004, 02:48:43 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
I stuck my thumb in there and they said something about angular rotation!
Post by: khamûl on October 19, 2004, 12:35:24 AM
The BT fitter uses a measurement involving the lines in the cylinder to determine lateral pitch. They also use the lines in the "bt2 oval fitter" to check oval angle in the thumb.
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two of nine
Post by: JohnP on October 19, 2004, 11:59:09 AM
quote:
The BT fitter uses a measurement involving the lines in the cylinder to determine lateral pitch.
I didn't know that, thanks. -- JohnP
Post by: jimensminger on October 19, 2004, 12:43:50 PM
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www.dynothane.com
Post by: Doug Sterner on October 19, 2004, 02:37:18 PM
Perhaps someone else here has used it and can elaborate?
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
The Cherry is the Bomb
And the Uranium blows them all away!
Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Post by: T-GOD on October 19, 2004, 03:00:31 PM
So, you have to throw the ball the way the span and pitches are designed. And/or, design the pitches the way you want to throw the ball. =:^D
Edited on 10/19/2004 2:52 PM
Post by: jimensminger on October 19, 2004, 04:02:55 PM
--------------------
www.dynothane.com
Edited on 10/19/2004 4:00 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 20, 2004, 09:03:07 AM
T-God and Jim Ensminger for emailing responses to my questions and giving me some great ideas to ponder and continue in my testing!
I'll get back to all of you in several weeks with some observations.
ALSO
Kamul, I've had the Bill Taylor fitting device used on me and never saw anyone use the lateral feature of it to measure. Maybe you could detail the method.
Oh that is the plastic circle with the thumb with spring loaded feature and all the different thumb sizes punched in surface?
I also want to say I agree with them that very often the best fit anatomical grip is a starting point and around this center point for your hand tweaks can be done for reaction. In addition T god has given me a method to try that essentially changes ones starting point for thumb lateral. Would have tried it last night except for some slow setting plug!
Oh well, next week.
REgards,
LUckylefty
Edited on 10/20/2004 8:55 AM
Post by: Doc Hollywood on October 20, 2004, 10:18:21 AM
In the pictures I have noticed that the hand has relatively short fingers and thumb. His thumb is also tapered and does not have great flexibility.
In the first picture his hand lies the most natural and though the bottle is small it does show his natural grip. If you were to expand the bottle size and keep his grip light and keep his palm flat on the bottle he would have more left lateral pitches. As his thumb in the other pictures moves closer under palm the muscles in the thenar pad below the thumb start to contract and this causes tension in the grip.
I have done this and my hand is built nearly the same.
I have tried changing pitch combinations from 3/4 reverse to 1/2 forward and 3/8 under to 3/8 away. Not just on myself but other bowlers as well. You will find that as most stiff thumbed bowlers go to more under they have a tendency to grip the ball more instead of having a relaxed grip.
By the way if you are interested in what my pitches are now. 1/2 under 1/4 away Span is 4 5/16 X 4 7/16
--------------------
Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.comcast.net/~docsmagic/
or message me at:
http://Doc65@aol.com
Edited on 10/20/2004 10:10 AM
Post by: JohnP on October 20, 2004, 11:55:20 AM
quote:
You will find that as most stiff thumbed bowlers go to more under they have a tendency to grip the ball more instead of having a relaxed grip.
By the way if you are interested in what my pitches are now. 1/2 under 1/4 away Span is 4 5/16 X 4 7/16
Unless you WANT to have to grip the ball more, this is contradictory. Please explain your pitch selection process. -- JohnP
Post by: T-GOD on October 20, 2004, 12:39:04 PM
|||||
<o> <o>
@ ^ @
\_U_/
Post by: JohnP on October 20, 2004, 01:52:11 PM
Post by: jjweb on October 21, 2004, 09:42:04 PM
Thanks again guys for all of the help!
--------------------
The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 22, 2004, 09:58:42 AM
Were you going to give the pitches you used and maybe how the ball rolls differetnly?
REgards,
LUckylefty
Post by: jjweb on October 22, 2004, 01:05:51 PM
I went with:
4 11/16 middle, 4 5/8 ring
Zero in the fingers
1/4 right, 1/8 reverse 45 degree oval
I definitely notice I get more turn with my fingers, and it feels fantastic coming off my hand.
--------------------
The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!
Post by: Doc Hollywood on October 22, 2004, 10:30:59 PM
This has really allowed me to grip the ball very lightly almost none at all. You would think that it would get stuck but on the forward motion the ball comes off my hand easily. It took a while to get used to it but I no longer even have to grip the ball with the thumb. Ron Clifton told me to try it and see what I thought. I said what the heck. It works for me. I did shorten up my grip and it is very relaxed. Finger pitches are zero forward and 3/8, 3/8/
--------------------
Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.comcast.net/~docsmagic/
or message me at:
http://Doc65@aol.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 23, 2004, 12:03:21 AM
I missed the spans??
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: Doc Hollywood on October 23, 2004, 09:42:38 AM
--------------------
Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.comcast.net/~docsmagic/
or message me at:
http://Doc65@aol.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 27, 2004, 09:29:43 AM
REgards,
LUckylefty