Post by: apocalyptic_rabbit on November 04, 2008, 02:52:15 AM
So why is it then, that so many people subscribe to this "RICO" layout? My pap is 5 - 13/16ths straight across.
Just shy of 6 inches, from the grip center. Thus that is my Pin to PAP for RICO, someone who's axis is say 4-1/2 by - 3/4 up, is going to have a much different PIN to PAP.
Why is it the same people who claim that pin to PAP are the same people whoe rave about RICO.
Now there is an inverted modified RICO?
Thats it, I am calling all of my layout by names that you would expect to hear from a car commercial. My next ball is going to be drill with constant variable, triple stacked, double leverage, with a twist.
Please discuss?
--------------------
In The Bag: http://www.putfile.com/rabbit69ca
Storm:
Dimension,Paradigm, T-Road Pearl, Jolt Pearl, Ice Storm
Lane 1
Cobalt Bomb
Columbia 300:
Arch Rival, Scout/R Hi-flare
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on November 04, 2008, 11:03:59 AM
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Pro Shop Apprentice
Post by: scotts33 on November 04, 2008, 11:10:30 AM
quote:
My next ball is going to be drill with constant variable, triple stacked, double leverage, with a twist.
What's the difficulty factor on that dive...err drilling apocalyptic_rabbit???
--------------------
Scott
Post by: moooorich on November 04, 2008, 11:10:35 AM
--------------------
think for yourself...question authority
Post by: apocalyptic_rabbit on November 04, 2008, 11:17:47 AM
also I have gone for the PowerHouse/Ebonite Pro Shop Operators Course and was taught the same thing.
Personal attack is not nesesacry
--------------------
In The Bag: http://www.putfile.com/rabbit69ca
Storm:
Dimension,Paradigm, T-Road Pearl, Jolt Pearl, Ice Storm
Lane 1
Cobalt Bomb
Columbia 300:
Arch Rival, Scout/R Hi-flare
Post by: sdbowler on November 04, 2008, 11:19:52 AM
--------------------
Kyle
Post by: apocalyptic_rabbit on November 04, 2008, 11:31:20 AM
if someone were to provide me with a valid arguement, that would be lovely.
and I am not bashing it as a layout, i am just say how is it possible to give a layout a name, and say this is what It will do, and then turn around and say when someone posts a picture of a ball that we need the axis, how is this any different?
People talk about the Lane #1 guys sucking back the Kool-aid, I see this practice as the way more potent formula.
--------------------
In The Bag: http://www.putfile.com/rabbit69ca
Storm:
Dimension,Paradigm, T-Road Pearl, Jolt Pearl, Ice Storm
Lane 1
Cobalt Bomb
Columbia 300:
Arch Rival, Scout/R Hi-flare
Post by: charlest on November 04, 2008, 11:42:34 AM
After all those years of "label leverage" not really specify and pin to PAP distance, we graduated to the point where we "Lectured" people about referencing drillings solely by pin, CG & MB distances from the holes.
Now we have had Rico and more imporantly Track's major drilling for the Rising and UPrising positioning pins, specifically in their recommended drillings, according to the finger holes and thumb holes.
Since my PAP, unlike yours, is in the great unwashed middle, 5" over, while it makes much less difference to me personally, it offends everything manufacturers and drillers and the IBPSIA has been emphasizing for YEARS!
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Stormkid84 on November 04, 2008, 11:51:55 AM
--p----
--0-0--
----c--
---0---
but for some it could be
----p--
--0-0--
-----c-
---0---
posibly even all markings in the track.
--------------------
Me: "These lanes are tight. I have 2 boards!"
My buddy with front 8: "Me too!"
Me: "Yeah, but yours both have arrows on them, and an arrow in between!"
Edited on 11/4/2008 12:55 PM
Post by: rockerbowler18 on November 04, 2008, 12:03:00 PM
Rico will be a little different for everyone, but there is such a thing as rico. It's like saying "pin high". It's a general categorization of a layout. Everyone's pin-PAP distance is different, but it's still a "Rico" drill.
--------------------
Bakersfield, California
Robb's Pro Shops
Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 16-17 mph
Current Average: 236
Post by: moooorich on November 04, 2008, 12:29:58 PM
--------------------
think for yourself...question authority
Post by: DP3 on November 04, 2008, 12:48:59 PM
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop. AMF Bowie Lanes -- Bowie, MD
Post by: charlest on November 04, 2008, 01:51:11 PM
quote:
Don't hate on the inverted modified rico...that layout has done wonders for my friends that have drilled it.
--------------------
Bakersfield, California
Robb's Pro Shops
Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 16-17 mph
Current Average: 236
Never heard of it. Please explain or point to a url.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Dan Belcher on November 04, 2008, 01:57:29 PM
quote:Pretty sure he just means putting the CG up and to the right 45 degrees. Think 315 degree drill.quote:
Don't hate on the inverted modified rico...that layout has done wonders for my friends that have drilled it.
--------------------
Bakersfield, California
Robb's Pro Shops
Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 16-17 mph
Current Average: 236
Never heard of it. Please explain or point to a url.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_Mac on November 04, 2008, 02:00:43 PM
That will not always benefit everyone, but what in bowling does?
Post by: strikealot on November 04, 2008, 03:35:01 PM
--------------------
~<:-0======"IN CG WE TRUST" i chant as i pray to the static weight God...======
Post by: walterrayseggs on November 04, 2008, 04:59:59 PM
http://www.brunswickinsiders.com/2006/ProductSpecialists/RicHamlin/richamlin.jpg
Post by: BrunsNick on November 04, 2008, 05:12:15 PM
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. BrunsNick
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-08
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.AskTheBowler.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
Friends don't let friends drink the Kool-Aid!
Post by: JustRico on November 04, 2008, 05:24:06 PM
The best way to understand the layout, is that it helps the bowler, generally speaking, with what they may lack in reaction. For example, most bowlers that have a lower track and/or spinner release, lack ball reaction or need more help with creating reaction. So by placing the pin in the center of the grip, the pin is closer to leverage, which is a strong pin placement, it will increase overall ball reaction for this bowler type.
A bowler with a higher track generally creates length easier and can have an over/under reaction on some conditions. This layout helps blend out front to back reaction.
A bowler with higher ball speed, the layout will help the ball slow down, thus creating reaction on higher volume shots.
Basically, this layout will give you a different reaction, than a traditional layout, when said traditional layouts do not work. I can also tell you that EVERY Brunswick staffer, on the exempt tour, has this layout in a multiple of balls in their arsenals.
I find it comical, the individuals that tend to call this layout 'out', saying it's not new, it doesn't work, it's a sham, etc. I can tell you for a fact, it does work when used correctly, for what it would be intended for each bowler type.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico
Post by: Rev_O on November 04, 2008, 05:31:16 PM
quote:
For starters, by placing the pin in the grip center, you generally drill around the core leaving a majority of the dynamics of the core. Placing the weight hole at 6 3/4" from the primary pin increases the overall dynamics, by increasing the asymmetry of the core. By placing the weight hole in the PSA or mass bias, you also increase the overall potential or dynamics of the core. So generally speaking, if nothing else, this layout, no matter the pin to PAP distance, will have more dynamic potential.
The best way to understand the layout, is that it helps the bowler, generally speaking, with what they may lack in reaction. For example, most bowlers that have a lower track and/or spinner release, lack ball reaction or need more help with creating reaction. So by placing the pin in the center of the grip, the pin is closer to leverage, which is a strong pin placement, it will increase overall ball reaction for this bowler type.
A bowler with a higher track generally creates length easier and can have an over/under reaction on some conditions. This layout helps blend out front to back reaction.
A bowler with higher ball speed, the layout will help the ball slow down, thus creating reaction on higher volume shots.
Basically, this layout will give you a different reaction, than a traditional layout, when said traditional layouts do not work. I can also tell you that EVERY Brunswick staffer, on the exempt tour, has this layout in a multiple of balls in their arsenals.
I find it comical, the individuals that tend to call this layout 'out', saying it's not new, it doesn't work, it's a sham, etc. I can tell you for a fact, it does work when used correctly, for what it would be intended for each bowler type.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico
Well said Rico. Even though I have only tried it in one ball so far, I am sold on it.
--------------------
Rev-O
Post by: DP3 on November 04, 2008, 06:43:24 PM
Fuze Detonator
BVP Ambush
Powergroove Pearl (marked the pin from the low RG axis on Determinator, not the factory pin)
Punisher
Total NV
Orbit Extreme
Oracle Vision
Without saying, thats alot of different balls on the scale for an experimental layout which I never saw a good reaction from. My rotation is around 65-70 degrees, last time my tilt was measured, it was around 16-18 degrees, and my revrate is in the 290-315 range. My axis is 4 1/4 right and 1/4 down. I've only seen the Rico layouts work alot better for those who were more up and under the ball, or dead spinners that can't get the ball to wrinkle in heavier volumes. That's the only way I'll drill that layout for a customer.
Does it kind of go without saying that the Rico layout doesn't read too well for higher rotation/high tilt players?
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop. AMF Bowie Lanes -- Bowie, MD
Post by: strikealot on November 04, 2008, 06:47:04 PM
--------------------
~<:-0======"IN CG WE TRUST" i chant as i pray to the static weight God...======
Post by: strikealot on November 04, 2008, 07:01:42 PM
--------------------
~<:-0======"IN CG WE TRUST" i chant as i pray to the static weight God...======
Post by: Jesse James on November 05, 2008, 03:25:29 PM
You might try a different release with the rico drill. I have seen your videos of you bowling. Your rotation of the ball is not that far from my regular release. Now, having said that,....here's my observations.
I have a rico drill on a Mystic and an old Track Hawk. I love this drill, but it gives me a different look on the lanes depending on conditions and release I use.
When I use my heavy oil release this ball goes straighter thru the fronts and mids than normal but gives me a very controlled, soft arc on the back! And I love the control it gives me for picking up tough splits as well. If I want to bend it, though, the ball will respond well, in a very controlled wide arcing manner.
When I come up the back of the ball, as I regularly do on a fresh shot, I find that I can play straighter, but still get power at the pocket with a little fade, thrown in for pin carry. This is an excellent drill, and one I plan to put next on a strong particle pearl piece.
Stick with it. It works
--------------------
Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, but it still holds the universe together.
Some days you're the bug some days you're the windshield.