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Author Topic: Thumb Pitch Change  (Read 6719 times)

jodyk24

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Thumb Pitch Change
« on: October 24, 2008, 02:39:25 PM »
I am thinking about changing my thumb pitch after several years of using 0 pitch and 1/4 to palm. finger pitches are 1/4 rev or away but with vise grips power lifts this brings me back to zero. Most of the time I have no problem with hitting my spot. I do not have thumb problems or sore fingers. I really started to notice some things that I need to correct. I am limited with my release and I spin the ball more now than before if I increase the ball speed. I really have to keep the ball speed slow on spares with a plastic ball. I used to be a high tracker but now I have the low track. I will probably have to go with trial and error because the coke bottle test seems to be obsolete today with most people. My notes say place hand on coke bottle and grip like a bowling ball. If the thumb is pointing past the Index finger to the left- 1/4 lateral away from the palm and pointing at the index finger-1/8 lateral away from palm. My thumb is so flexible I could go either way. I know every bowler is different and some are old school and use some wild reverse and forward to the palm pitches. I will try zero and 1/8 away from palm and see what happens. If anybody has changed their thumb pitches recently with good or bad results, I would like to hear from you.

jodyk24
 
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sunsetlefty

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2008, 08:03:34 AM »
jodyk24,

pm sent.....
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jodyk24

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2008, 12:25:42 PM »
Gary...

Thank you for your help, pm returned.

jodyk24
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 12:29:21 PM »
You seem.....confused!

Luckylefty
PS the coke bottle test does not end up with many results.
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jodyk24

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 03:27:11 PM »
LuckyLefty...
Yep I already know I am confused. My wife tells me all the time 7 days a week so I am used to it. You could be talking about the coke bottle test. It does not look right but I was looking at some old notes. I am old, the only one older is Brickguy(LOL). Yesterday I changed my set up on the thumb which was zero reverse and 1/4 lateral right to zero and zero. Rolls great on the chair and couch. I will see what happens in league tomorrow night.

jodyk24
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2008, 02:26:00 PM »
The coke bottle test is taken by closing hand around a smaller cylinder like a home airosal can or a coke bottle.  While not looking at it.....or trying to create a result....people tend to get one result....over and over and over.

It is only when wants to be like their favorite friend bowler or best personal friend bowler A of the PBA tour that one starts to get these varying results.
They want to be like Mr. 800 they kknow!

If the test is taken blind and the hand is closed most people will get the same result....over and over and over!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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walterrayseggs

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2008, 10:46:51 PM »
Forever I had always used 1/8 reverse, 1/8 left until I threw the pro shop guys ball that was 1/4 reverse 3/8 right and it felt perfect, no hang, no discomfort, nothing. And it allowed me to lower my track and not squeeze the ball. It looks weird see a hole drift so far to one side, but the feel is where it's at.

My point is, I don't think the bottle test, or any other method it always "right". Trial and error seems to be the one constant in this game.

Edited on 11/6/2008 9:31 AM
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srlunatic

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2008, 02:15:44 AM »
The Coke Bottle or "Other Wrist Grab" test will definitely get you very close to were you ned to be...That would be the starting measurement I would use on my Innovative Ball/Span...and then after having all other measurements set, start to fine tweak the results....

Things I would look at...

1) Dry or Moist Thumb
2) Length of Thumb

Again would use the Span Ball to make tiny corrections/adjustments as needed to get the proper fit....*which I think Lucky has talked about with the "hanging ball" method...letting the ball hang loosely at your side to check span...
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chitown

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2008, 09:10:25 AM »
the coke bottle test is bs.  The only way to find a good lateral pitch is to go thru the plug and redrill process over and over, trying out different pitches until you find the one you like the best.

I also think it's best to use two or more bowling balls while trying to sort your pitches out.  This way you can compare different pitches at the same time to really get a feel for which one works the best for your hand.
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azguy

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2008, 09:32:13 AM »
I use the 'coke bottle' test as a starter. The one thing I see more of than not is flexibility. The older one gets, most times, the less flexibility the thumb has and pitches that were good for you a couple years ago are now painful/not as close as they can be.

Not everyone does this work for. I also have a 84 year old customer that has more flexibility in his fingers/thumb than a 21 year old I did last week, but is it something that must be figured into the equation, IMO.
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tenpinspro

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2008, 12:39:04 PM »
Hey jody,

The coke bottle test was intended to show our natural or relaxed grip positioning of our hand.  However, this does not truly indicate "how" we throw or deliver the ball at the point of release.

What I've picked up over the years is if a bowler can maintain a firm to cupped wrist position at the point of release, he/she is more apt to clear the thumb easier and the hand can rotate or not rotate when desired.  This same feeling can be achieved with the proper reverse pitch as well.

It is usually when our wrist starts to give or break thru the point of release which then we will have to succumb to the pitch in the hole and our thumb/hand will be forced to release to the angle of which the thumb is drilled or we will hang up and create drag.

This would make sense if you noticed a change in your track while having the same pitches yet you didn't spin before.  It may be a change in your wrist strength thru your point of delivery (just a thought).

Remember, our forward/reverse pitch in our thumb dictate how fast we release a ball but our left/right lateral pitch tend to dictate "how" we release a ball.  Hope this helps some...

On edit: Forgot to mention that our thumb must be snug to feel the actual pitch of which it is drilled to.  I've seen too many times where an incorrect pitch is drilled to "how" the individual actually releases a ball which then causes the bowler to hang up.  The bowler then returns to the shop to say they're hanging up so the shop driller (without understanding that the bowler is releasing the ball contradictive to the existing pitch) simply opens the thumbhole to a point where the pitch or curvature of the hole no longer has any impact or value.
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Edited on 11/8/2008 3:22 PM
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2008, 07:46:06 AM »
I think there are some great points made in this post...

The coke bottle test is designed to show lateral pitch....

i.e. does your thumb want to point at middle or ring finger when it closes then you tend to need lateral under palm pitch(i.e. right for a righty).

i.e. does your thumb want to point at index finger then you will need lateral "out" pitch...i.e. left for a righty.

This tends to give one the proper side pitch to have your thumb properly down the middle of the "barrel".  i.e. not touching with the corner of the nail down in the ball and hitting the other side of the ball at the top of the thumb hole...i.e. in this case your pickle will be at an angle in the "barrel".  No jokes here guys!

I also agree with I believe one of the "top" how drill and pitches affect roll guys....Mr. Deadbait!  Different pitches can make it easy to attain certain rolls!

In addition if lateral pitch is wrong and the thumbhole is a tight one....one can get serious hang at the top of the thumbhole  and serious nail bruising at the opposite nail corner (from the top hang spot) on the bottom of the thumb.

Bevel as taught by Mo Pinel and mentioned by me in the past out here....can seriously fix these problems.  (note depending on tweaks one does to thumb pitch).  One can end up with different amounts of bevel for the front of the thumb and for the side of the thumb.....and different amounts of bevel for the same guy for dramatic pitch changes.  An example....one guy may use a ball with a 1/4 inch reverse and a certain span and have very little front bevel.  The same guy can then use the same span and go to 0 forward/reverse and have to add a significant amount of front bevel....and may be able to leave his lateral thumb bevel to be very slight(if it was slight before).

Along these lines.....I have recently gone to a much smaller thumb hole size and have found that surprisingly I am having to go very close to my Coke bottle test lateral(ala one of our top gurus tenpinspro above).....a slightly bigger thumb hole (which widens the lateral measurement) and then is tightened up with tape front and back....allows me to use a wider range of lateral pitches.

Another method discussed with me by one of our Grip gurus(Tgod) states that one can change off their lateral ideal coke bottle test pitch by rolling the finger pitches in the direction one intends to roll the thumb pitch.  ie if one wants to roll their thumb pitch left say 1/4 they can roll their finger pitches both 1/4 left and still have comfort in their thumb.  This applies to both righties AND lefties.

Interesting stuff....

REgards,

Luckylefty




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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
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chitown

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2008, 11:33:19 AM »
I currently use 3/16 lateral under palm pitch and 1/4 reverse.  I tried the coke bottle test and come up with all different angles.  So for me the coke bottle test is confusing.

Now sometime ago I tried 3/8 lateral under palm pitch.  This lateral pitch was actually really comfortable on my hand.  However, 3/8 lateral under palm pitch had limitations when it came to releasing the ball.  I had a very difficult time trying to come up the back of the ball.  The lateral pitch forced me around the side.  So I went back to 3/16 lateral.

I personally don't want to use a lateral pitch that limits me to a particular release.  

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jodyk24

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2008, 12:35:22 PM »
This post turned out to be great with a lot of information for everyone. I was last year 3/8 right lateral. This was very comfortable but, yes I was limited on release options. By moving the pitch to 1/4 right lateral did not help out that much. I am now at zero lateral and zero pitch. I will have to bowl extra games or practice more to see if I have thumb drag or strain in any way. Don't change pitches just to be changing.

jodyk24
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T-GOD

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Re: Thumb Pitch Change
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2008, 07:17:39 PM »
Every bowler can use any pitch they want. It depends on how long or short of a span you want to use and how you would like to release the ball. A longer span will need more left pitch in the thumb. As you decrease the length of the span, the lateral pitch will need to go towards the palm.

You'll likely get more forward roll with a longer span and more turn/spin with a shorter span. =:^D
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