Post by: chipmunkbowler on May 04, 2009, 03:11:44 AM
I prefer to use the dual angle layout where you can really manipulate where the ball will roll.
Post by: J_Mac on May 04, 2009, 11:22:26 AM
On symmetrical it's all about the pin to PAP distance and the pin to VAL distance.
Post by: chipmunkbowler on May 04, 2009, 02:01:53 PM
Post by: Russell on May 04, 2009, 02:17:29 PM
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Post by: bluerrpilot on May 05, 2009, 10:01:57 AM
quote:
I generally don't bother with the dual angle layout technique with symmetrical pieces, but I will use it as a starting point with asymmetric stuff.
On symmetrical it's all about the pin to PAP distance and the pin to VAL distance.
Symmetrical balls have a PSA as well.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"
Post by: J_Mac on May 05, 2009, 10:04:50 AM
quote:quote:
I generally don't bother with the dual angle layout technique with symmetrical pieces, but I will use it as a starting point with asymmetric stuff.
On symmetrical it's all about the pin to PAP distance and the pin to VAL distance.
Symmetrical balls have a PSA as well.
Which is rarely worth taking into account before putting holes in it because it will move once you punch up the ball with 3-4 holes.
Post by: leftyinsnellville on May 05, 2009, 10:17:47 AM
I normally just follow the manufacturer's instructions only taking into account pin location and distance to pap, general cg placement (label, stacked, leverage), and mb location and distance to pap on asymmetrical balls. I normally just place weight holes, if needed, on the val anywhere from 1 to 2 inches below my pap.
Is the dual angle technique really that much better to justfiy spending the time learning the layout? Seems like a lot of hype to me...
Edited on 5/5/2009 10:18 AM
Post by: J_Mac on May 05, 2009, 10:34:09 AM
quote:
but with the dual angle method you can manupulate where the ball will roll because you can easily predict where the pin is from the VAL
Why bother predicting when I can just draw a circle with a radius of 2" around the pin and know that my VAL will be a tangent line to that?
Storm's pin buffer technique works too, but the DAL technique gives the person laying out the ball more of an idea of what to expect from the layout.
Post by: bluerrpilot on May 05, 2009, 11:53:18 AM
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"
Post by: stopncrank on May 05, 2009, 12:01:05 PM
quote:
I know what works for me and what my PAP is....no need for any "system" unless I am trying to place the weighthole in a certain spot....and then I just weight it out after putting my grip lines on it.
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http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
i second that, it seems like every few months or so some bowling "genius" comes up with the next great way to drill a ball. they make punching holes in a round object as hard as an act of congress. truth is, all these so called techniques are still based off of pin to pap distance in one way or another.
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!
Post by: jbuzz31 on May 05, 2009, 12:09:11 PM
quote:
i second that, it seems like every few months or so MO comes up with the next great way to drill a ball.
Fixed it for ya. lol
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Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
Post by: pin-chaser on May 05, 2009, 12:10:05 PM
Post by: stopncrank on May 05, 2009, 03:08:04 PM
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but with the dual angle method you can manupulate where the ball will roll because you can easily predict where the pin is from the VAL
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Or you can use pin height over midline. Everyone seems to have forgotten about that.
yeah, you can't do that with different pin to pap distances???
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!
Post by: chipmunkbowler on May 06, 2009, 02:31:14 PM
quote:
Is the dual angle technique really that much better to justfiy spending the time learning the layout? Seems like a lot of hype to me...
Edited on 5/5/2009 10:18 AM
The dual angle layout technique isn't that complicated it's based on angles from the CG and mass bias to where your pap will be and an angle to determine your VAL.
Knowing what is best for you is up to you
Post by: kidlost2000 on May 07, 2009, 12:16:48 AM
I stick with 3 to 4 drill patterns and let the equipment be the difference.
Rico layout is my newest addition to the list. Very even front lane reaction, with continuous backends. Tried it with aggressive solid reactive, medium reactive, particle pearl, and pearl reactive. Love them all.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: EboHammer4ever on May 07, 2009, 07:12:40 AM
Maping out balls is fairly straight forward me after you've done a few thousands. haha.
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Jarrett Roseboom
Storm/Rotogrip fan
pics of my equipment
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Post by: JohnP on May 07, 2009, 10:07:00 AM
Post by: charlest on May 07, 2009, 03:53:38 PM
quote:quote:
but with the dual angle method you can manupulate where the ball will roll because you can easily predict where the pin is from the VAL
Or you can use pin height over midline. Everyone seems to have forgotten about that.
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I'm officially a ball junkie
Pat etal,
The Dual ANgle method takes into account not only the pin-PAP distance but also the pin height above the midline AND the pin distance from VAL. That is what's so good about it.
This is the idea bluerrpilot was trying to get across. We know pin above the midline changes the RG to lower or higher and we know as you put the pin closer to the VAL the ball reaction at the breakpoint gets snappier sharper and and the further from the VAL it gets slower and longer. The DAL method takes all those into account.
For a given bowler and a given ball, and a given surface, you know precisely what your ball will do and the educated driller can do this for you, if he knows your game.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: kidlost2000 on May 10, 2009, 05:06:22 PM
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "