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Author Topic: To Static Weight experts!  (Read 8693 times)

LuckyLefty

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To Static Weight experts!
« on: February 20, 2005, 02:12:16 PM »
A funny thought happened to me recently.

We think of static weights in relation to the grip.
YEs we must weigh in relation to the grip for getting a ball legal.

BUT, shouldn't we think of static weights in relation to the original ball track.

I mean a ball that has a static weight of 0 still has weight imbalance in relation to the ball track.

And if a guy is a low tracker he has considerable side weight if measured in relation to his low track.  Maybe this combined with not much surface like a high tracker touching the lane may have something to do with the low tracker difficulty in handling oil.  Though he may have a legal side weight in relation to the grip he may have 3 ounces of side weight if measured in relation to his first track.  Whereas the high tracker may be be legal and only exhibiting 1 1/2 ounces of side weight if measured in relation to his primary track.

I'm sure in the days of yore this was a concept thought of and discussed in the past.

Gurus?  T-God?

REgards,

luckylefty
PS along with this question are there many of you that have tried 6 X 6 drillings etc for length.  How much backend do you get?  Or 6 X 6 1/2?
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JohnP

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2005, 01:53:36 PM »
LL -- This is something I've wondered about also.  Re the low tracker having high sideweight measured against his track - does he really?  The low tracker (spinner) has a lot of axis tilt, so that most of the weight you're referring to is actually on the top of the ball instead of on the side.  Now, with a high tracker, most of the imbalance against the track is on the side, not the top.  Just my thoughts.  --  JohnP
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T-GOD

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2005, 07:38:48 PM »
Lucky, you're correct. Static weights are measured from the center of your grip. But the effect they have is determined by the position of the weight in relationship to your track or PAP.

Because weights are measured from your grip center, a bowler with a low track will turn ball with 2 oz. of top weight with no side weight, into a ball with 1 1/2 side. Basically the weight of the ball is closer to his PAP, because a low tracker has a shorter PAP distance.

As you can see, weight closer to your PAP makes the ball go longer. Side weight means the weight/ending center of gravity is closer to your PAP. This is why positive side weight is not recommended for a low tracker bowling on oil.

Spinners and/ow low trackers need the weight closer to your track, so it rolls more end over end. Less side weight and/or negative side will get the ball to start earleir and hook more in oil for spinners.

So, a 6 x 6 1/2 ect... will hook more for low trackers and/pr bowlers with more side turn. This type of weight/layout may roll out for bowlers with a higher track, especially if the core is more stable/symmetrical.

With an assymmetrical core, a bowler with a higher track may be able to get away with the ball not rolling out with a 6 x 6 1/2 layout. =:^D
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LuckyLefty

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2005, 10:49:36 PM »
Ahhhhh Hemmmmmm!

Possible hijacking of my post!

Ahhhhhh Hemmm!

So back to my question.... For drilling for less midlane a far pin position can help get less flare and allow the ball to go straighter for longer.  But by putting cg on track(ie in my case about 6 1/2 to 7 from PAP,(high tracker) this negates the effect of a long pin correct.  So for T god my static weight expert?

Would you recommend a 6 or 6 1/2 X 5 for my high tracking medium reving not enough tiltin self on a strong wet dry with 40 feet of light volume and very jumpy mids?  I had been in to drilling stuff with my cg kicked back towards track with pin at 5 and 5 1/2 but on the negative side of the ball I have very little experience to go by.  Except several 6 X 7s(I bought from righties).

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Track900

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2005, 10:59:22 PM »
To back up what Brunsrich has been saying this is a quote from Ebonite's webpage

"We have done CATS testing on the ball's overall reaction with different static weights and the results showed no measurable difference of ball reaction. There were far greater reaction differences involved by the bowler's inconsistency of ball speed, rev rate, axis rotation and tilt. The greatest reaction differences came when altering the surface friction of the coverstock."
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Brickguy221

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2005, 11:26:17 PM »
What BrunsRicH said in both of his posts.
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stanski

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2005, 11:31:15 PM »
Pro's have been tested and haven't been able to tell the difference in feel and/or reaction with a difference of 8! ounces of static weights or otherwise. I believe parker bohn and walter ray were a part of this test. If they can't tell the difference, then how the hell will in make a difference in our game?


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Brickguy221

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2005, 11:34:55 PM »
Stan, your statement (and I agree with it) backs up what BrunsRicH keeps trying to get across to people.
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stanski

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2005, 11:42:58 PM »
quote:
Stan, your statement (and I agree with it) backs up what BrunsRicH keeps trying to get across to people.
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Yeah, he really is the one you all should be listening to. I am just trying to throw another opinion in there to try and make a difference. People just won't believe the earth isn't flat...
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LuckyLefty

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2005, 12:15:01 AM »
OK if cg doesn't matter why don't you guys do the following.

Get two balls the same model and manufacturer drill both with 5 inch pin to paps.

One of you drill it stacked and the other put the cg out towards the negative PAP.

Good luck not seeing the difference.

Now if you guys don't mind.

Start this post.

"Why I believe CG doesn't matter"  There you guys can sit around and pat each other on the back.

REgards.

Luckylefty
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Re-Evolution

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2005, 01:11:20 AM »
Sorry for the hijack Lucky.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2005, 10:30:16 AM »
I don't see any hijacking on your part Storm Track?

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS I'm just trying to figure out an approriate pin location and core orientation for this condition.
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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LuckyLefty

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2005, 04:28:46 PM »
I don't care what you call it.  On a symetrical ball it is same direction from the GD PIN, (I'm starting to get frosted), as the mass bias.

I want to know pin position and cg or mass bias but CORE ORIENTATION to achieve my objective and I don't want to have this stupid repetitive discussion.  Please take it to another post.  "Mass bias and cgs that I like to argue about"

Yikes!

REgards,

LUckylefty
PS I'm in an area of pin positions and mass bias locations or cg locations that I'm not familiar(past the bridge and the grip center)  with and am trying to create a different reaction to solve a condition.
PPS there is only one company that maintains that core orientation(on symmetric balls this implies the cg doesn't matter).  It is not Track, it is not Columbia, it is not Roto grip, it is not Lane 1, it is a big company, it is a good company, but it stands alone in saying that only pin position, surface and weight hole location determine reaction.  How do I know, every other company in its drill instructions prominently displays cg on symmetric ball drilling instructions and prominently displays mass bias in their assymetric drilling instructions.
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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RSalas

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2005, 06:30:15 PM »
quote:
It is frustrating when an individual or individuals that choose their beliefs, also choose to 'put-down' a company for trying to educate by doing research so we understand ball motion and reaction better, to help the masses be better bowlers by our research.


BrunsRicH:  Welcome to BallReviews.com!
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a_ak57

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Re: To Static Weight experts!
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2005, 06:37:13 PM »
Excellent post Ric.  Brunswick is the rebel company, with the disprovement of the importance of the CG on symmetric balls, and the baking method and whatnot.
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