Author Topic: Why don't we keep it simple? (Read 5327 times)

bowlingmytmouse · « **on:** January 31, 2009, 11:10:43 AM »

BR roomies,
Let me first state that this is in no way shape or form bashing anyone's drilling practices or selections, but rather just some insight as to what I have found has worked for me.

I have owned over 40 bowling balls easily. When I first started bowling I would let my ball driller put what he thought was best on a ball for what I needed it for. This wasn't a bad thing, I had pretty good success with most of the layouts he used...he did put some on a few balls that in retrospect were kinda goofy.(This wasn't DP3, my current driller

) LOL

But then I started reading up on different layouts I starting buying into the hype of the so called "trick" and "special" layouts. Now there is nothing wrong with trying different things, but some of us try TOO much! LOL. I found myself fighting to get a consistent reaction because everything in my bag was so off the wall.

So after struggling with ball reaction and consistency, I had a NIB Saga sitting in the closet and told DP3 to drill it how he saw fit. Now DP3 knows my game better than I do, so I trusted him. And now I have dawned it the DP3 layout! LOL. It provided me with a great reaction and I have never left it. This all occurred to me after looking in my arsenal and saw how freqent that layout is there. Of course they aren't all drilled the same but lot are or a variant. With the contrast in many of todays bowling balls if you take a ball from each company and drill them the same, you will have vast differences with each ball. And cover preparations give you limitless possibilities as far as on lane looks.

I say all this only to say. Keep it simple...its cool to experiment, but for most of us, we don't need to drill the Tommy Jones "Trick Layout" because we will rarely if ever match up to it. I just thought that I would share this revelation that has come to me hoping that it may help someone else searching for what works...if you don't agree with me, then don't. Its a free world!

BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??

Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.

Edited on 1/31/2009 8:11 PM

Edited on 1/31/2009 8:12 PM

Edited on 1/31/2009 8:32 PM

bowlingmytmouse · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2009, 10:27:01 AM »

See this is y I hate being friends with both DP3 and achappy! I'm not saying drill every ball the same. I can't preach what I don't practice. All I am saying is that you don't have to jump from a pin axis drill to a 7" axis drill. My point of this post isn't to tell everyone to drill every ball the same way, but rather keep it basic. You don't have to go "exotic" to get a good ball reaction. Now I realize that some bowlers will have to, but a majority of us don't. The purpose of this isn't to cut and paste a reaction...that is not my goal, BUT rather to get a GOOD reaction. Now like you said, you only know what works for you from experimentation...but I think that when some of us hear experimentation we jump off the deep end.

Selah,
BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??

Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2009, 12:17:42 PM »

The arguments made here are both good. I think what's missing and why this could be endless is that we're missing the component on the type of bowler. Back to my previous posted categories of..

1) highly speed dominant (hypothetically hooks 1-3 boards)
2) slightly speed dominant (hypothetically hooks 4-9)
3) matching speed to revs (hypothetically hooks 10-15)
4) slightly rev dominant (hypothetically hooks 16-21)
5) highly rev dominant (hypothetically hooks 22+)

Categories 1+2 probably fall into BMM's idea or basically a bowler that doesn't hook the ball that much, extreme pin to pap layouts (close or far) are not going to affect his overall reaction as much. He/she is still only going to be able to get "x" amount of ball reaction regardless.

Categories 3+4 can start to utilize a wider variety of layouts as controlling a piece or creating a desired reaction shape to that bowler becomes a little more sophisticated to keep him/her in their comfort zone.

Category 5 can go more extreme in layouts as this bowler is able to cross so many boards and choosing the proper ball/cover/layout can really help make or break them on a particular condition.

We now also must consider what "type" of bowler we are dealing with. Are they just league bowlers, some tourneys or highly competitive that would help dictate how large or small their arsenal needs to be and what layouts are needed.

BMM, I totally agree with you for the average bowler who doesn't bowl tourneys, may only need 3-4 balls that at least cover heavy oil to dry.

The arsenal w/ various layouts will increase based on the category that the bowler falls into along with their intentions.

I also agree with achappy having been on staff with him for years at Track, we did see a fair amount of overlap within the line and being the type of bowler he is (between slightly and highly rev dominant and a big tourney player), he could utilize some of the more extreme layouts to attack certain conditions.

Sorry for the length...

sidenote to achappy: What's up bro? Good to see you out here again, going to pm you with my new number. Hope Mrs chappy and baby are doing good.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

themachine300 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2009, 12:38:08 PM »

On house shot you can get away with having the same layout on every ball, on tougher patterns, imo you can't
--------------------
www.bowlingsolutions.com

Move left, hook it more.....

Tommy Jones and Kenny Simard are Gamecock fans...are you???

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2009, 01:05:08 PM »

and the "Secret" but Simple drilling IS? .......drumroll please?

I'm similar to you....I had a set of drillings that worked on regular top hats...got away....going back...

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

chitown · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2009, 09:03:55 PM »

quote:
The main problem with going with your favorite layout on most balls is that you will have serious overlap in a lot of the equipment unless you choose distinctly different covers and cores. It's definitely difficult doing it with the same ball and layout even with surface changes. If the reactions overlap, they add confusion to ball changes and selection.

--------------------
Anthony Chapman

Roto Grip Staff 2009
Vise Grips Staff 2009

I disagree with some of what your saying.

First, any bowler building an arsenal of equipment should pay attention to what kind of bowling balls their buying. Second, even with the same exact layout each ball is still going to show it's own unique characteristics. I've drilled a lot of bowling balls using the same exact layout and seen a lot of difference between balls. Now you may not see as much of a difference on a walled up house pattern but you do see a difference on tough patterns.

Now drilling the same ball with the same exact layout is done with the intentions of having different surface grits between them. You will see difference between a polished ball and one that's 500 or 1000 grit. Now for me i've found it to be easier to switch balls during play if im switching to the same ball but different cover grit.

I've has less success using a different pin placement on each ball in my arsenal. For me that's too drastic of a difference between equipment which can make it hard to stay in the pocket when switching to another ball during play.

Keep in mind i'm not talking about building an arsenal for bowling on walled up house patterns. Most anything works on walled up house patterns.

The difference between bowling balls shows up a lot more on tougher patterns than it does on walled up conditions.

We will have to respectively agree to disagree on this topic. lol

Edited on 2/5/2009 8:01 AM

chitown · « **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2009, 09:16:39 PM »

quote:
On house shot you can get away with having the same layout on every ball, on tougher patterns, imo you can't
--------------------
www.bowlingsolutions.com

Move left, hook it more.....

Tommy Jones and Kenny Simard are Gamecock fans...are you???

Wrong! I totally disagree!

I bowl on some very difficult patterns every single week in a big money league i've been on for the last 6 seasons. Your generalizing things.

Your not considering the bowlers skill. Your forgetting about hand positions. You don't always need different layouts to produce different reactions. Your also not considering a bowlers style. There's a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to ball arsenals and layouts.

I've had a lot of success on some very tough patterns using a ball arsenal that had the same exact layout on each ball. Each ball still shows it's own unique charateristics.

If i'm building a 6 strike ball arsenal for myself 4 of the balls will have the same exact layout and 2 will have another layout.

Edited on 2/4/2009 10:35 PM

charlest · « **Reply #22 on:** February 05, 2009, 01:07:22 AM »

quote:
See this is y I hate being friends with both DP3 and achappy! I'm not saying drill every ball the same. I can't preach what I don't practice. All I am saying is that you don't have to jump from a pin axis drill to a 7" axis drill. My point of this post isn't to tell everyone to drill every ball the same way, but rather keep it basic. You don't have to go "exotic" to get a good ball reaction. Now I realize that some bowlers will have to, but a majority of us don't. The purpose of this isn't to cut and paste a reaction...that is not my goal, BUT rather to get a GOOD reaction. Now like you said, you only know what works for you from experimentation...but I think that when some of us hear experimentation we jump off the deep end.

Selah,
BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??

Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.

BMM,

Neither am I saying use only 1 drilling. Use 2 or 3, but the extremes are only useful for tournaments that people like achappy and DP3 enter on a regular basis and I'd bet they don't have a lot of those either. Most people, who are even in 3 leagues and bowl 2 or 3 tournaments a months, need to focus more on picking the right balls rather the right drillings. KISS! rules!!!
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #23 on:** February 05, 2009, 07:52:33 AM »

Amen.

I also never understood why bowlers would WANT a so-called trick layout. It is probably ignorance? As the name impplies, special drillings are supposed to do a trick - provide a solution for specific conditions. IMHO, that use is very limited. It is O.K. if a professional bowler has something like this in the bag, among 20 others. But I cannot see a reason, except that it is a true solution for a problem of the bowler, why Joe Bowler should use it?
Wanting, O.K., because it is marketing hype, or a pro player said he/she'd score well with this special setup. But I am sure that in many cases the use, even blind duplication, of a trick layout does not yield a significant positive result for Joe Bowler, except for the ego?

This is also not to bash drilling experiments. But I followed a discussion about the RICO drilling on a local board, and it was spoken of as a kind of mystery drilling that would do wondrous things in anyone's hands. The idea of it (early roll, smooth arc, control for higher rev players on oilier/flat shots) and that it was developed and intended for a special occasion and purpose, was totally ignored. "It is pro, it is cool/different, it has to raise my average by 10".
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling?
Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

BackToBasics · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2009, 08:19:05 AM »

quote:
quote:
The main problem with going with your favorite layout on most balls is that you will have serious overlap in a lot of the equipment unless you choose distinctly different covers and cores. It's definitely difficult doing it with the same ball and layout even with surface changes. If the reactions overlap, they add confusion to ball changes and selection.

--------------------
Anthony Chapman

Roto Grip Staff 2009
Vise Grips Staff 2009

I disagree with some of what your saying.

First, any bowler building an arsenal of equipment should pay attention to what kind of bowling balls their buying. Second, even with the same exact layout each ball is still going to show it's own unique characteristics. I've drilled a lot of bowling balls using the same exact layout and seen a lot of difference between balls. Now you may not see as much of a difference on a walled up house pattern but you do see a difference on tough patterns.

Now drilling the same ball with the same exact layout is done with the intentions of having different surface grits between them. You will see difference between a polished ball and one that's 500 or 1000 grit. Now for me i've found it to be easier to switch balls during play if im switching to the same ball but different cover grit.

I've has less success using a different pin placement on each ball in my arsenal. For me that's too drastic of a difference between equipment which can make it hard to stay in the pocket when switching to another ball during play.

Keep in mind i'm not talking about building an arsenal for bowling on walled up house patterns. Most anything works on walled up house patterns.

The difference between bowling balls shows up a lot more on tougher patterns than it does on walled up conditions.

We will have to respectively agree to disagree on this topic. lol

Edited on 2/5/2009 8:01 AM

Notice I said you will have serious overlap in a lot of the equipment unless you choose distinctly different covers. That of course means 500 grit is not the same as polished. But as your rev rate increases, your choices for surface decrease and thus different layouts are needed. Also, if the amount of oil your seeing in most tournaments and leagues are limited, then you will be also limited in surface choice.

And I disagree, as the patterns get tougher, you need flare and breakpoint management to control ball reaction so you can't have the same layout on every ball. Some patterns (or more importantly surfaces) require less flare through the front part of the lane. That requires longer pin to PAP distances. Shelling down to a weaker cover is not an answer because you still need the aggressive cover for the mids and backend. I do agree a lot depends on the bowler and also the pattern/surfaces they're bowling on. (the combo needs to be considered since the surface can drastically change the underlying pattern)

BTW, I love this thread. Lots of good discussion.

Also, I'm just curious and playing devils advocate. What's exotic or a "trick" layout? If a certain layout matches the bowler and the condition...is it still exotic? A "Rico" was considered exotic 15 years ago when I first tried it but now you see a thread a day on it.

tenpins: Ms. Chappy and "the boy" are doing great. He wears her out during the day and me at night LOL.

--------------------
Anthony Chapman

Roto Grip Staff 2009
Vise Grips Staff 2009

Edited on 2/5/2009 9:20 AM

Ragnar · « **Reply #25 on:** February 06, 2009, 10:55:08 AM »

Generally speaking, yes, simple is best. HOWEVER, there are times when it just isn't good enough. For example, in a month I'm going to bowl a tournament on what I am told will be a very dry house shot. My normal layout(s) (pin by ring, cg/MB out or pin above and just outside ring, stacked) will be too strong. So, I've recently drilled two balls (one weakish, one not) with layouts that I think will work on this shot. I may never use them on my normal house shot, but it's worth it to me to have them in my bag when I'll need them.

Gazoo · « **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2009, 11:50:15 AM »

And the winner is:

"because we haven't a clue what we're doing and we need to prove it to everyone else?"
--------------------
"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"

CharlieBrown · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:54:08 AM »

Just had time reading this thread.

Great contributions everyone.

Great input achappy.

Thanks.

--------------------
I'm a THS hack and a ball junkie.

Author Topic: Why don't we keep it simple? (Read 5327 times)

bowlingmytmouse

Why don't we keep it simple?

bowlingmytmouse

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

tenpinspro

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

themachine300

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

LuckyLefty

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

chitown

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

chitown

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

charlest

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

dizzyfugu

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

BackToBasics

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

Ragnar

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

Gazoo

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?

CharlieBrown

Re: Why don't we keep it simple?