BallReviews

General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: J_w73 on February 16, 2010, 05:29:31 PM

Title: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: J_w73 on February 16, 2010, 05:29:31 PM: I've always been a skid flip player but am trying to smooth out and straighten my game a bit. I was practicing tonight with a bunch of different releases and throwing 4 different balls from different areas of the lane. Didn't do anything fantastic. Was around a 200 average.. Then for the last two games I went to my Slate Blue Gargoyle urethane.. piped up 10 out to sniff the edge of the dry around 7... ball was coming back and crushing the pins.. shot 278, 238....

How can I get that smooth predictable roll out of a reactive ball?.. Something with the same look just stronger.. I think my 900 Global is about the closest thing I have right now.. is there a layout to use or are there particular balls to look at ??
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: ranAAchan on February 17, 2010, 01:56:53 AM: my pin up @ bridge AMF Clutch does that, I hate it because I'm use to seeing my ball move 5+ boards. Rico RSX300 was also smooth, unless it was extreme dry that ball had a slow roll
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: the pooh on February 17, 2010, 04:21:00 AM: I would just get a Seismic Desperado and be done! GREAT urethane ball with a asymmetric core. Anyways, to answer your question, you can use a small drill angle and a very large val angle and it will give you slower response off the friction. It still won''t be urethane. Like ranAAchan said, a rico drill will give that look as much as possible.
--------------------Also, pin on axis or near axis will give a similar look, but they don''t hit very hard.
the pooh

Edited on 2/17/2010 5:23 AM
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: dizzyfugu on February 17, 2010, 04:33:51 AM: I have a black Power Groove Particle, polished, with a half-axis drilling (see my review about it, there's also a link to a video of this piece). I had it set up this way out of curiosity and with wet/dry lanes in mind, and this ball (or its recation) is quite unique. Moves totally different from my rest of the arsenal, my old Blue Hammer (classic label drill) comes closest.

It has a very smooth hook with little, arcing back end - great for playing up the boards between 1st and 2nd arrow for me. It is rolly, though, the PGPs cover is not weak at all (even with polish) and I need to release the ball with speed, revs and authority to keep it working and hitting well. This, with an entry level reactive (or a PG Dry/R, if you can still find one!), could also be an alternative to a urethane ball?
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: charlest on February 17, 2010, 06:25:47 AM: Jw,

Very few balls act like a Slate Blue Gargoyle. Don''t forget it''s a pearl urethane, too. That makes it more unique. Actually I found my Blue/green Centaur to have a more urethane-like roll than my SBG. Its core is a lot weaker though.

There have been a few balls that such small, even tiny backends that you say they were "urethane-like". One is the Blue/Green Centaur. Another one from years gone by is the Lane#1 Bullet. I have several urethanes that have more backend that one had, including the Hype and the Desperado. Since Brunswick made it for Lane#1, you''ll never see one again, unless someone has one hidden somehwere. And it hit too! Worth its weight in gold, but not asmuch as the BGC.

FYI one other ball currently available that some people say is very "urethane-like" is the Motiv SX-1. I won''t guarantee that because mine was not even remotely close to urethane. Heck, with its original drilling mine was flippy.

I think you can reduce the backend (maximizing their control, the essence of urethanes) to the max on many resin balls is to put the pin on your axis. That reduces the flare to zero and any skid is gotten from the ball''s surface, the oil and your delivery (tilt, rotation and ball speed).

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 2/17/2010 7:26 AM
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: scotts33 on February 17, 2010, 06:29:59 AM: Jeff's got it right Visionary Green/Blue Centaur. Most versatile ball I have ever owned and use it more than just about anything I do own.
--------------------
Scott
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: Oskuposer on February 17, 2010, 06:32:43 AM: particle balls tend to blend oil patterns too. If you want a great urethane ball then the amf hype is amazing. It has a rg or 2.48 and a diff. .5 and the cover can be adjusted to whatever you want.
--------------------
Kiall Hill
900Global
AMF 300
Good Stuff
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: gee on February 17, 2010, 06:57:38 AM: Try Pin 6-1/4 inch away from your pap and drill a x-hole in the Pin at least 1" 2" deep. You will get a low flaring ball with a lowerde differential for a predictable move off the spot.
If you want to use an asymmetric core:
drill 135*1/2*0 some kind of wired layout but it works
Pin will be near to your ax, MB left from your finger and CG anywhere else.

Maybe you give RICO a try but drill an x-hole 6-3/4 from pin to CG to get some more hitting power except you are Robert Smith...
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: kidlost2000 on February 17, 2010, 07:27:45 AM: Pin distance to pap

0" - minimum flare potential, core is in its most stable position, earliest roll with smoothest arc.
1 1/8" - 1/3 of flare potential, stable core position, earlier roll with smooth arc.
2 1/4" - 2/3 of flare potential, semi stable core position, early roll with strong arc.
3 3/8" - max flare potential, most unstable core position, medium length with the most hook potential.
4 1/2" - 2/3 of flare potential, semi stable core position, late roll with flip/arc reaction.
5 5/8" - 1/3 of flare potential, stable core position, later roll with a flip reaction.
6 3/4" - minimum flare potential, stable core position, latest roll with strongest flip.

I would probably go with one of the suggestions in bold. I would try a medium reactive solid ball and play with the surface around 800-1000 grit and maybe some light polish to tweak it if needed.
--------------------
" men lie, women lie, numbers don''''t "

Edited on 2/17/2010 8:28 AM
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: J_w73 on February 17, 2010, 08:34:48 AM: my creature that I mentioned does have the pin at centergrip.. I don''''t have the traditional rico weight hole though...The ball is pretty dang smooth.. not early and as smooth as urethane though..

I''''m thinking about trying a 1" from PAP layout. I just don''''t know what ball to put it on. Something relatively cheap but a stronger cover
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Edited on 2/17/2010 9:36 AM

Edited on 2/17/2010 9:37 AM
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: dizzyfugu on February 17, 2010, 08:44:39 AM: quote:
I'm thinking about trying a 1" from PAP layout. I just don't know what ball to put it on.

From my experience, do not use a ball with a low RG. Pin axis drillings make a ball REALLY rolly, they bleed energy much more quickly than a standard setup with the pin at more than 3 3/8" from PAP. Even my PGP with its high RG and polish on the surface tends to die if I do not play it firmly. So, I'd suggest an entry level or lower performance raneg ball. A Link might be an option, as well as a Power Groove (due to its high differential - making use of that little flare the weak drilling offers).
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: J_w73 on February 17, 2010, 09:02:39 AM: quote:
quote:
I'm thinking about trying a 1" from PAP layout. I just don't know what ball to put it on.

From my experience, do not use a ball with a low RG. Pin axis drillings make a ball REALLY rolly, they bleed energy much more quickly than a standard setup with the pin at more than 3 3/8" from PAP. Even my PGP with its high RG and polish on the surface tends to die if I do not play it firmly. So, I'd suggest an entry level or lower performance raneg ball. A Link might be an option, as well as a Power Groove (due to its high differential - making use of that little flare the weak drilling offers).
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")

The power groove particle seems like a good candidate.. I should probably be able to pick one up pretty cheap..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: charlest on February 17, 2010, 09:43:51 AM: JW

If you use 16 lbs, I have one sitting here I no longer use. I use 15s now. It's in very good shape.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: J_w73 on February 17, 2010, 10:22:55 AM: quote:
JW

If you use 16 lbs, I have one sitting here I no longer use. I use 15s now. It's in very good shape.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

So I'll hijack my own thread.. why did you go to 15 lbs. What benefit do you see? any bad about it ??
I'm thinking about it just for the less stress on the hand and wrist. Thinking maybe I can get a few more revs.. I already throw the ball too fast with 16 though..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: Jeffrevs on February 17, 2010, 10:31:29 AM: sorry guys, just a quick observation:

I have a Morich Hercules (see profile) w/ a control drill that while strong-ish, is VERY smooth AND predictable!
--------------------
Jeff
The Revless Wonder, ...AND.... King Douchebag!
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: charlest on February 17, 2010, 11:46:15 AM: quote:
quote:
JW

If you use 16 lbs, I have one sitting here I no longer use. I use 15s now. It''s in very good shape.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

So I''ll hijack my own thread.. why did you go to 15 lbs. What benefit do you see? any bad about it ??
I''m thinking about it just for the less stress on the hand and wrist. Thinking maybe I can get a few more revs.. I already throw the ball too fast with 16 though..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Mine is an up and down cycle. I went to 15 lbs in the late 1990s because of a hip problem. I stayed with them until about 2 years ago when I tried a 16 and it worked well. So I reinitiated a 16 lb arsenal. Somehow my scores kept going down, while everything felt fine. I know they have to be drilled differently due to different RGs and RG differentials. I can actually throw a 16 faster than a 15 and my timing and release are much better. I never learned why my scores went down. COuldn''t figure it out. Went back to 15s about a year ago. My average is finally going back up. My bowling ego has taken quite a blow to say the least. I even stopped entering most tournaments I used to enter regularly. My confidence is slowing building back up again.

Want that ball? send me a message.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 2/17/2010 4:42 PM
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: J_w73 on February 17, 2010, 12:35:17 PM: still looking..not sure what I want to do..
I'll let you know.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: Urethane type reaction out of reactive asymmetrical balls
Post by: RichH on February 17, 2010, 06:02:18 PM: Just remember drillings for asyms and syms are different. If you want a asym with smaller track flare you need to have the pin between 3/4 - 1 1/2 from your PAP. These type of pin positions will produce more side roll in a asym, where as in a sym they will still be low flaring, but create an earlier breakpoint. Also, in asyms 5-6 inch pin positions are still high flaring!!

Rich Huzina
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
IBPSIA Advanced Tech
USBC Silver Coach

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of the Brunswick corporation.