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Author Topic: Bought some pro shop tools. Am I doing things right?  (Read 5574 times)

trash heap

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Bought some pro shop tools. Am I doing things right?
« on: June 04, 2014, 03:57:32 PM »
I have purchased an armadillo, turbo 2n1 pro sect quarter scale, turbo span gauge, ball cups, stop watch, and some wax pencils. Here is my reasoning. We have no pro shop in our local center.

So I thought that may be I would purchase equipment that would able me to provide a little more accurate  specs for bowlers. Basically for members of the high school team. Checked out bowlingchat.net site. Got the tables and charts from the wiki.

Went to the lanes last night with the kids and thought I would try getting specs.

1st question. When I am using the pro sect quarter scale to draw lines on the ball, the wax pencil is also getting on the pro sect. I yellowed (sorry for the term) it up last night. I can still see the measurement markings. Should I try to clean the wax pencil markings off? If so, I am assuming to just use a wet cloth. 

Or should I be using something else to put the lines on the ball? Maybe this is a stupid question and you are all laughing, that's okay, I can take it.

So to start with my daughter. She throws a Full Roller Release. I found the first oil ring around the ball. Put it up against the armadillo to find the PAP.   Marked the PAP. Had her throw the ball a couple times. Mark looked good.

Tilt: From the armadillo I can get tilt. That track line was between 12 and 13. So her track measure at 12 1/2 inches. Base on the chart her tilt is 7.

PAP: So I thought I get the measurements for her PAP. Measured her span. 4 inches. Marked middle of span. Placed the center line, then did the mid line, then the vertical axis line to the PAP.  Her PAP was 5 5/8 over and 3 1/8 up. (Does this seem right?) I am trying to make sure the lines are straight and the angles are 90 degrees where they intersect.

Axis Rotation:  Would it be 0? Does it matter with a full roller style?

Rev Rate: I placed tape from her PAP to above fingers and video recorded a few shots to determine rev rate. Haven't been able to get to the computer. Going to tonight.

Speed: She was throwing 60 feet at around 2.65 seconds (average of several throws). Puts her ball speed around 15.4 MPH.  (I can get bowlingchat.net reccomendation of frame count to 15 feet through the video.) 

That was my first attempt.
Talkin' Trash!

 

Gizmo823

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Re: Bought some pro shop tools. Am I doing things right?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2014, 08:04:17 AM »
Don't worry about the quarter scale, as long as you can read it, that's all that matters.  The grease pencils will get yellow all over everything.  If she's a full roller, that pap sounds right or at least reasonable.  The only thing I see is axis rotation, you meaning angle of rotation I'm assuming?  You can't really lock that down from oil rings, read this: http://www.bowlingball.com/info/axis-tilt-and-axis-rotation.html 

Most full rollers also have tilt that goes the opposite direction from everyone else's, and it is a factor. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Radical In RI

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Re: Bought some pro shop tools. Am I doing things right?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2014, 11:21:16 AM »
Just one note about the quarter scale:

For pretty cheap you could also buy a span ruler and not have to worry about the grease pencil marks on it.  Here's one example, not sure if you could find one cheaper out there

http://shop.innovativebowling.com/Metal-Span-Ruler-33-56-06.htm

JohnP

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Re: Bought some pro shop tools. Am I doing things right?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2014, 11:58:50 AM »
To clean yellow wax pencil marks off balls and pro shop equpment use either rubbing alcohol or ball cleaner, water will just spread it. 

The spine of your prosect is made so one side lines up with 0 degrees, this is the side you should be using to draw your lines, either the other side or the center of the spine will be off by a couple of degrees.

A true full roller track will be between the finger holes and the thumb hole.  Since the track covers the entire circumference of the ball axis tilt will be 0 (or very close) and the PAP horizontal measurement will be 6 3/4" (or very close).  The vertical measurement will usually be between 2" and 4".  Rotation will vary from bowler to bowler, at 0 degrees of rotation the tape on her PAP will be pointing at the gutter and at 90 degrees it will be pointing straight back at her.  There is a template in the wiki at bowling chat that will help you determine her tilt.  Axis rotation and tilt are used to modify the relationship between speed and revs.  Higher rotation and/or tilt have the effect of increasing speed a little, lower decreases speed a little.  --  JohnP

trash heap

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Re: Bought some pro shop tools. Am I doing things right?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2014, 09:09:08 AM »
Thanks for the replies.

I guess it's little back to the drawing board with her PAP. When I view frame by frame, the mark I have for PAP isn't quite the right at release. It doesn't sink until it hits the lane, which kind of make sense. (Since I am using the first oil track). Should I try to be more precise. 


Here are the specs all togther:

PAP: 5 5/8 horizontal and 3 1/8 vertical (Just copy from above)

Speed: 16.3 MPH (# of frames to 15 feet) vs. 15.4 MPH (using distance of lane)
      - Almost a MPH difference. WOW!

Revs: 108 RPM

Axis Rotation: 0 degrees (I haven't found a way to get the overlay to work on my PC, but based what I see on the video this is close)

Axis Tilt: 7 degrees




You see a lot things in the approach when you slow it down. I need to find a way to do this at the lanes. Is having a laptop the only way? I have looked into tablets and it appears their camera's or apps are not quite there yet with the frame by frame analysis. 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 09:12:27 AM by trash heap »
Talkin' Trash!

Radical In RI

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Re: Bought some pro shop tools. Am I doing things right?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2014, 09:50:06 AM »
Thanks for the replies.

I guess it's little back to the drawing board with her PAP. When I view frame by frame, the mark I have for PAP isn't quite the right at release. It doesn't sink until it hits the lane, which kind of make sense. (Since I am using the first oil track). Should I try to be more precise. 


Here are the specs all togther:

PAP: 5 5/8 horizontal and 3 1/8 vertical (Just copy from above)

Speed: 16.3 MPH (# of frames to 15 feet) vs. 15.4 MPH (using distance of lane)
      - Almost a MPH difference. WOW!

Revs: 108 RPM

Axis Rotation: 0 degrees (I haven't found a way to get the overlay to work on my PC, but based what I see on the video this is close)

Axis Tilt: 7 degrees




You see a lot things in the approach when you slow it down. I need to find a way to do this at the lanes. Is having a laptop the only way? I have looked into tablets and it appears their camera's or apps are not quite there yet with the frame by frame analysis. 

Idk if you have a Ipad, but if you do (I also think it maybe on other tablets also) check out the "Coach My Video App".  It allows you to take video and play it frame by frame.  It also has functions to draw on the images and compare videos side by side.  Really useless application.  Check it out below:


http://www.coachmyvideo.mobi/