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Author Topic: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??  (Read 3459 times)

hoppyfl

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We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« on: September 25, 2009, 12:22:46 AM »
We are trying to determine how to drill this ladies new ball but the track is like nothing we've seen before.

We've talked to proshop owners, coaches, ball manufacturer, etc. and no one has been able to help.

The lady throws a right handed backup ball with the back of the hand facing the pins on the downswing followed by a clockwise wrist twist at release which gives it the backup action. We're trying to come up with a drilling pattern that
will give her more drive through the pocket but looking at the track, we don't know where to start.

The ball measured is drilled for a lefthander.
Here's what the track looks like.
http://www.box.net/shared/g9e8kcncf8

Here's our problems: Everything seems backwards.
1. The AP(axis point) marked #1 which is visible to the bowler as it rolls down the lane is in the position shown. This AP however is closest to the track which says it's the NAP but why then is it visible going down the lane.
I thought the PAP was the visible axis point and the NAP was in the front of the ball toward the pins.

2. The distance to AP #1 is 7 1/2" from the grip midline which again says it's the NAP but then again, it seems to be in the wrong place going down the lane.

3. The track is on the wrong side of the ball for a lefthanded/backup delivery. The ball is tracking on the same side as a right handed hook ball.

4. The track starts out away from the grip and flares toward the grip, just the opposite of most balls.

Anybody got any ideas of how to drill a new ball to fit what's happening here? Any help would sure be appreciated.

ps - (Unfortunately, the lady is fixed in her style and changing the style is not an option)

 

FrontTwelv

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Re: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2009, 10:26:39 AM »
check out my thread with a similar situation.

http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=241766&ForumID=18&CategoryID=5

It's caused by over rotation.  The bowler i dealt with had an axis of 8 1/2" over and 1 11/16" up.  

It sounds fine, but make sure to keep the pin down to keep from cliping the finger holes when the ball flares.  OR place the pin far away from the axis point to keep the flareing to a minimum.

hope this helps.
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH

kmanestor22

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Re: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2009, 11:47:06 AM »
I have to make a couple assumptions, so correct me if I am wrong.  Is that the pin in the drawing as if it is drilled for a lefty?  Also, my understanding is that her thumb is doing the "lifting" that a normal person's fingers would do.  Right?  If that is the case, flip the drawing upside down.  Look what you have.  A full roller drilling.  That is why the track goes toward the grip.  To correct this, put the pin in the opposite quadrant(4:30), which would look like a full roller drilling for a lefty.  If my theory is correct, the track should move away from the grip.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

hoppyfl

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Re: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2009, 01:08:21 PM »
Yes, that small black circle to the left of the finger holes is the Pin.
The CG is under it by about 2 1/2".

Thumb lifting is a possibility.  BTW, it's drilled with a conventional grip..

I tried the 4:30, 4" from the thumb position with an old ball. The ball went straight, no hook at all.  The ball I tried it with had the pin and cg within 1/2" however for what that's worth.

It would be much simpler for me if she could rotate her wrist all the way over to the right side to get a left handers roll but that's not in the cards.

Thanks for the replies,  food for thought.


kmanestor22

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Re: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2009, 02:01:54 PM »
What did you see when you tried the 4:30?  Did the track flare away from the grip?  What kind of balls were used in each case?  Did the flares space apart differently?  These are all clues.  I'd love to help.  I just need more info.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

hoppyfl

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Re: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2009, 08:04:06 PM »
The ball with the 4:30 drilling had an extra hole so it could be thrown
with the pin to the left at 10:30 or right at 4:30 of the grip.
The Ball when thrown with the pin to the left hooked right.  The ball when thrown with the pin at 4:30 went straight.  It was an AMF Whiplash.
I'll have to repeat that test to determine PAP and flare direction/spacing with the 2 pin positions.

The other ball is an Ebonite Gamebreaker.

hoppyfl

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Re: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2009, 10:13:56 PM »
If you have time,  I'll try to have the info up Tuesday.
Thanks

hoppyfl

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Re: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2009, 07:37:30 PM »
I don't know if these new results have any meaning or not.  I did learn something,
PAP is not a consistant value from ball to ball.  The Gamebreaker had a 7 1/2", 6" axes to midgrip measurement.  This AMF measured out at 9 1/2", 4" to the axes.

The ball was drilled with 4 holes so she could throw it withthe pin on either side.  The pin was about 4" out at 4 oclock from the midline and 10 o'clock from the midline.  This was the easy way to do the pin on either side without plugging the ball.

Here it is:  The Tracks once again started out farthest from the grip and moved in toward the grip with both pin positions.  The flare was not bow shaped, more like holding rings in your hand.  Flare separation was about 1/4" at the widest part.  File BULAYOUTB

http://www.box.net/shared/aai0kbzssp  

What do you think?  The biggest problem with the ball is the number of splits on pocket hits.  Brooklyn hits have a very high carry on the other hand.  I keep telling her to throw brooklyn but that and changing her style is not on the menu so any suggestions for changing the pattern to get more carry would be appreciated.

Bluff

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Re: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2009, 11:20:28 PM »
hoppyfl I don't think it matters how you drill it.

is not going to make any diffrent
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"A man with no skills can be taught. A man with no honor, has nothing."

kmanestor22

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Re: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2009, 07:47:00 AM »
I think the axis point you are showing is the negative axis point.  13.5" - 9.5" = 4" PAP to center of grip.  When thrown with the pin at 4:30, the pin is near or on the PAP, resulting in very low flare.  I recommend pin at 4:30, 3-3/8" from the PAP or 5/8" from center of grip.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

hoppyfl

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Re: We Need Your Help - Drilling pattern ??
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2009, 08:33:16 AM »
Thanks guys -