Author Topic: Weak and Strong which combination? (Read 15943 times)

Doug Sterner · « **on:** November 21, 2010, 12:56:47 AM »

I was sitting in the shop the other night and started looking at the bowlers on the lanes, the balls on the racks and then the balls I have on the shelf for sale and I started thinking...

What''s the overall preference for getting balls to work on the house conditions for bowlers with stronger releases?

What combinations seem to perform best across the country?

weak core, weak cover, strong layout?
weak core, strong cover, weak layout?
strong core, weak cover, weak layout?
others?

Just curious what the consensus might be....

--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug''''s Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

Edited on 11/21/2010 11:12 AM

charlest · « **Reply #16 on:** November 28, 2010, 09:22:13 AM »

Crass? I beg your pardon.

I was neither obtuse, insensitive nor stupid.

I stand by my opinion, whether the bowler has a strong release or a weak one.

If you have a different opinion, why not just state them, instead of denigrating mine. That IS rude, internet or not.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

BackToBasics · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2010, 09:48:14 AM »

quote:
Crass? I beg your pardon.
I was neither obtuse, insensitive nor stupid.

I stand by my opinion, whether the bowler has a strong release or a weak one.

If you have a different opinion, why not just state them, instead of denigrating mine. That IS rude, internet or not.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

You don't think saying "Basic rules like that seem to come from people who do not want to think for more than 2 1/2 seconds" is insensitive? You could have simply stated that it didn't make sense to you and why.

Your posts oftentimes come off in that manner. You are a long time poster and I respect you tremendously but sometimes when there is an opinion different than yours you do not post them in a respectful manner. You were the first to denigrate others' opinions with the above quote. You have a wealth of information that is valuable to this site. I just think that the manner in which it is delivered can be improved.

My opinion is that majority of the time for strong handed bowlers, if the layout is too strong, it causes the ball to flare too much, too early and have less usability than if it were drilled weakly. The weaker drilled balls can be used on a wider variety of conditions AND for longer periods (i.e, bowlers do not have to switch off from it after a game). It makes it much easier to chase the oil and still have the recovery with longer pins because of the controlled flare.

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2010, 12:01:10 PM »

Ok I never intended to open a can of worms here. I was just asking for others' opinions...

Just wanted to know whether people thought a typical house bowler with a strong release would benefit more from a weaker ball drilled strong or a stronger ball drilled weak. No need for anyone to get their tidey whiteys in a bunch over who said what or what was said.

As stated before I am not a big fan of taking a strong ball, drilling it to go long and not flare too much and then going 4000 grit and polish to make it usable...just seems like the ball becomes very finicky and condition specific.

--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

charlest · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2010, 12:47:52 PM »

quote:
quote:
Crass? I beg your pardon.
I was neither obtuse, insensitive nor stupid.

I stand by my opinion, whether the bowler has a strong release or a weak one.

If you have a different opinion, why not just state them, instead of denigrating mine. That IS rude, internet or not.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

You don't think saying "Basic rules like that seem to come from people who do not want to think for more than 2 1/2 seconds" is insensitive? You could have simply stated that it didn't make sense to you and why.

Your posts oftentimes come off in that manner. You are a long time poster and I respect you tremendously but sometimes when there is an opinion different than yours you do not post them in a respectful manner. You were the first to denigrate others' opinions with the above quote. You have a wealth of information that is valuable to this site. I just think that the manner in which it is delivered can be improved.

My opinion is that majority of the time for strong handed bowlers, if the layout is too strong, it causes the ball to flare too much, too early and have less usability than if it were drilled weakly. The weaker drilled balls can be used on a wider variety of conditions AND for longer periods (i.e, bowlers do not have to switch off from it after a game). It makes it much easier to chase the oil and still have the recovery with longer pins because of the controlled flare.

1. Bowlers are not the easiest people to convince. Oftentimes, a 2x4 is needed when logic does not prevail. That was not for the sake of Doug but for the many who suggest that that rule be followed. I'd say that was a suggestion and not a rule. This is based on the idea that too many bowlers "WANT". They rarely "NEED".

2. Why do you need to reiterate your opinion and continue to denigrate mine. What we each have expressed is an opinion, as there is no proof, one way or the other.

Yes, the majority of the time a stronger release bowler will need a less than leverage pin and MB position. SO if a driller follows this "rule", how often will he be wrong and how many customers will he lose because he followed a "rule" blindly? I'd suggest the number or percentage will be high enough to affect his income. I still suggest that every case MUST be taken independently to meet the needs of THAT bowler (while still trying to make him/her happy and meet his "wants", if at all possible).
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

charlest · « **Reply #20 on:** November 28, 2010, 12:48:49 PM »

Apologies, Doug. I will no recede into the woodwork.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #21 on:** November 28, 2010, 08:48:16 PM »

no need become part of the paneling my friend....as always I respect and welcome your opinion and insight. If there was more information presented on this website, as opposed to the blind "drill max leverage and I'll figure out where to throw it so it works" we would be much further ahead in life.

Now let me add another twist to the discussion....

Joe Average house bowler is using a ball...say a Hammer Jacked. Now he gets into a situation where the ball starts to hook up too quick and is going through the nose for him no matter where he stands or how he changes his release and speed. He obviously needs a different ball because he does not want to change the surface on this one as it works well when he bowls elsewhere.

Now....what's the preference? Do you drill up another Jacked and alter the layout and surface or do you drill up a Burn?
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

Mattski · « **Reply #22 on:** November 28, 2010, 09:10:47 PM »

What I will drill will depend on the bowler, but I opt to drill equipment with weaker cores / covers stronger, and stronger cores / covers weaker. On the occasion someone is really looking to get max potential I will drill a strong ball strong, usually for certain PBA patterns with more oil volumes. I have found that for our typical house patterns, weaker balls drilled weak tend to confuse the bowlers because they think the ball is supposed to hook more on the backend, but what usually happens is there is a big lake in the middle and the balls never read the breakpoint correctly.

But to sum up, weak strong and strong weak.

JohnP · « **Reply #23 on:** November 29, 2010, 09:47:23 AM »

quote:
Now....what's the preference? Do you drill up another Jacked and alter the layout and surface or do you drill up a Burn?

I would recommend a weaker ball, it might or might not be the Burn. -- JohnP

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #24 on:** November 29, 2010, 08:30:13 PM »

thanks John...thats what I was looking for in the post....do you drill up another one of the same ball with a weaker layout and less surface or do you go with a ball that has the same core but a coverstock with more built in length?

Your response is what I was looking for...opinions on what other people would do.

Thanks.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

surface_solutions · « **Reply #25 on:** November 30, 2010, 04:25:40 AM »

I have found it works best to fit an average bowler, 170-190, with a ball that is just above entry level up to something in the mid price range. Looking to the right company can get you a low end ball with real good core dynamics and good cover, watching your customer you can then determine a good all around layout.

Going mid range can help create area on a variety of patterns and THS's. That is our goal as shop operators, right? Give our customers the best chance to shoot some score...

I have found that bowlers in this classification don't have the necessary skills to line up on a THS and put 3 good games together. They don't seem to be able to control the strong stuff, drilled weak or strong, and most aren't able or willing play a much more direct line that strongly drilled weak balls dictate.

As for everybody above that, I feel it's a matter of opinion and when you average 200 plus in a few different enviroments you probably have a good idea of what works for you.

I personally like higher RG equipment, (2.54 and up)I can drop the pin to get earlier roll or keep it up for good length. Hand positions and surfaces help create shot shape and overall hook potential....
--------------------
Adam M Moreland
surface_solutions_proshop@yahoo.com
Phone: (616) 690-0590

RotoGrip Star Pro Shop Lifetime Member
http://s698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/adammoreland/Arsenal%202010-2011/

Author Topic: Weak and Strong which combination? (Read 15943 times)

Doug Sterner

Weak and Strong which combination?

charlest

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

BackToBasics

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

Doug Sterner

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

charlest

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

charlest

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

Doug Sterner

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

Mattski

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

JohnP

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

Doug Sterner

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

surface_solutions

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?