Post by: northface28 on April 25, 2007, 06:03:22 AM
--------------------
Perception is NOT reality.
My Pics http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/northface28/album?.dir=/9f09&.src=ph
Post by: DP3 on April 25, 2007, 07:07:36 PM
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
Post by: charlest on April 25, 2007, 07:09:20 PM
The advantages and disadvantages are dependent on your point of view and ball speed. It is generally an earlier rolling release, as it is often, but not always caused by lifting up without turning your thumb or rotating your fingers. Most times, there is little rotation by the bowler.
On good amounts of oil, this can be an advantage - early roll. On lesser amounts of oil without good ball speed, it is a liability.
In and of itself, it is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. It just is.
However it is still unusual and your driller should know your PAP; so he can drill balls properly.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: a_ak57 on April 25, 2007, 07:14:23 PM
quote:
Chicken winging the elbow too much and late thumb exit causes inversion. As for the other two, it'd depend on the bowler which layouts work best. A good friend of mine is a two handed 500+rpm player with 18-20mph speed and his axis is 3 3/4 right and 2" up. That's inverted to the extreme! Imagine drilling for him.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
DJ, I know you know more about bowling than I do, but doesn't inverted mean that his PAP coordinate would have to be down, not up? Either way that is quite an extreme PAP.
--------------------
- Andy
Post by: DP3 on April 25, 2007, 07:49:53 PM
quote:quote:
Chicken winging the elbow too much and late thumb exit causes inversion. As for the other two, it'd depend on the bowler which layouts work best. A good friend of mine is a two handed 500+rpm player with 18-20mph speed and his axis is 3 3/4 right and 2" up. That's inverted to the extreme! Imagine drilling for him.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
DJ, I know you know more about bowling than I do, but doesn't inverted mean that his PAP coordinate would have to be down, not up? Either way that is quite an extreme PAP.
--------------------
- Andy
Why wouldn't a high vertical measurement not be considered an inversion? I'd consider an extreme shift in any vertical measurement in the PAP an inversion.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
Post by: JohnP on April 25, 2007, 08:10:01 PM
Post by: northface28 on April 25, 2007, 09:52:44 PM
--------------------
Perception is NOT reality.
My Pics http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/northface28/album?.dir=/9f09&.src=ph
Post by: DP3 on April 25, 2007, 09:57:45 PM
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
Edited on 4/25/2007 9:56 PM
Post by: Jepp114 on April 26, 2007, 12:54:18 AM
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXo_t9Q1GyU
Post by: Mike Austin on April 26, 2007, 01:09:45 AM
1 7/8 over and 3 1/8 down. PAP is about 1/2 inch right of his thumb hole. He throws it smooth as silk, track above the fingers, almost perpendicular to his grip line.
What am I gonna do for this kid?
--------------------
Driller to many "Stars" and Tony Melendez too!
ONLINE and building products: www.mikeaustinproshop.com
COMING SOON!!! www.mikeaustinbowling.com
Check out my Ebay Store! http://stores.ebay.com/mikeaustinproshop
http://www.allbowling.com/journal/public.php?uid=67&leagueid=1270
Post by: APheLion on April 26, 2007, 08:50:21 AM
--------------------
When a house bowler misses the mark, misses the break point and strike, for many ppl its called a wallshot. When a pro does that its call adjustment
When a house bowler gets his finger stuck in the ball and fall on the lanes, for many ppl its called lame bowler. When a pro does that its called the Machuga flop! ha i like this one.
Post by: Ragnar on April 26, 2007, 11:34:53 AM
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are, Dimitri."
Post by: a_ak57 on April 26, 2007, 02:44:37 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/a_ak57/3-9release1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/a_ak57/3-9release2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/a_ak57/3-9release3.jpg
I know my finish position is bad, but this is just one way of getting an inverted track. For reference I'm 3/4" down and 5 3/8" over.
--------------------
- Andy
Post by: JohnP on April 26, 2007, 03:16:09 PM
Post by: FBM357 on April 26, 2007, 03:27:14 PM
quote:
Crankers or bowlers that keep the hand behind the ball with the thumb at 2 0'clock and index finger at 10 o'clock, then coming out of the ball late with the fingers will cause the track to invert..
Generally requires a strong wrist position maintained through the release..
--------------------
New computer. New office. New ID.
Yes, it be I, the Inverted 1.
EXACTLY!!!! (btw, I'm 4 3/4 x 3/4 down)
--------------------
Proud member of the Track Revolution - EMERITUS & Hitman
"Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open!"
Post by: keeones23 on April 26, 2007, 04:15:36 PM
--------------------
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')
Cute Bunny! copy bunny into sig to help him achieve world domination
http://www.putfile.com/keeones
Post by: charlest on April 26, 2007, 06:41:26 PM
quote:
I'm about as inverted as they come, except no thumbers -- 5 3/8 over and 1 3/8 down. -- JohnP
John,
That is ... diseased.
1.375" down?? Oh, come now!How do you do that and still actually know all that crap about drilling???
:--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: charlest on April 26, 2007, 06:45:05 PM
quote:quote:
Crankers or bowlers that keep the hand behind the ball with the thumb at 2 0'clock and index finger at 10 o'clock, then coming out of the ball late with the fingers will cause the track to invert..
Generally requires a strong wrist position maintained through the release..
--------------------
New computer. New office. New ID.
Yes, it be I, the Inverted 1.
EXACTLY!!!! (btw, I'm 4 3/4 x 3/4 down)
--------------------
Proud member of the Track Revolution - EMERITUS & Hitman
"Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open!"
Horse manure puppies!!!
YOU AIN'T GOT AN INVERTED TRACK. NOT THAT I'VE LAST SEEN. (Caps were on; sorry) We've got to get together again this Summer. Your release didn't even look close to be inverted; but who knows for sure.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 4/27/2007 7:42 PM
Post by: JohnP on April 26, 2007, 10:33:47 PM
quote:
That is ... diseased. 1.375" down?? Oh, come now!
How do you do that and still actually know all that crap about drilling??? :
My hand and brain don't communicate. -- JohnP
Post by: charlest on April 27, 2007, 07:44:45 PM
quote:quote:
That is ... diseased. 1.375" down?? Oh, come now!
How do you do that and still actually know all that crap about drilling??? :
My hand and brain don't communicate. -- JohnP
Been there; done that. err .... rather, am there; do that.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Bluff on May 01, 2007, 11:56:01 PM
quote:
Hey guys, I track inverted, My pap is 3 1/2" and 1/4" down.
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXo_t9Q1GyU
Just want to let you know 315 without strong Massbias ball is not 315.
I say pin 2 1/2 closer to PAP works best
atlest for me that is when I was inverted 1/4 only--------------------
I like bowling cause I got 3 holes of fun.
Woman are like Cars. You can't just drive one and be happy with it.
Woman are Like IPO. Hot only initial offering
Post by: charlest on May 02, 2007, 12:30:31 AM
quote:
per Webster.... to invert or inversion is to "reverse". Don't see any relevance here as to tracking closer to fingers or to thumb. Inversion would certainly apply to a "reverse' flare" as it is a reverse from the norm.
Jargon is oftimes totally unrelated to the actual specific "dictionary" definition of the term. "Inverse" in bowling lingo refers to what we have bene discussing: the relative proximity of the track to the finger holes and the thumb holes.
"Inverse" is a term in Logic. In Logix there is no such thign as the "reverse".
There are the base, the inverse, the converse and the contrapositive. When the base statement is true, then the contrapositive is always true. When the inverse is true, then the converse is true and the base is never true. Etc., etc., etc.
quote:
All you guru's get your s--- straight when you start talking. A track closer to the fingers is nothing more than late finger release, upward lift on the ball on the side of the ball, and closed fingers at release. Good description of a no thumber. A lot of these guys have this release as do a lot of folks who use their thumb. Generally this release uses more of the ball surface, earlier hook, more hook, better on oil. In todays game, this is why the thumbless bowlers have a lot of speed or they're toast.
The above ("A track closer to the fingers is nothing more than late finger release, upward lift on the ball on the side of the ball, and closed fingers at release. " ... "Generally this release uses more of the ball surface, earlier hook, more hook, better on oil.") is all true, as I have stated. So your point is ____ ???
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."