BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: Nizztos on February 02, 2020, 03:48:19 AM
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I would like to drill my balls at home. Basically just as a hobby and for fun. Willing to put some money into it but the sky is not the limit.
Just need to understand what I need at a minimum.
Drill Press. Is 80mm (~3") chuck travel enough? Would need to swing or lower bed to change drills but I could live with that.
x-y table to do oval holes.
Jig. This seems very expensive for what it is. Can something be cobbled together that works? Seems it is just a ball holder, two long screws and a plate with a hole in it. Am I missing something here?
Bits that cover the sizes of holes I need.
inserts (I will use vise grips or similar for my thumb).
Epoxy since I will at least to start with redrill an old ball more than a few times :)
What else do I need and what are some things I need to consider for the items I have already listed?
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I drill at home. I suggest trying to find a drill with basic jig. You could probably find something for around $500 used. For bits, you can get away with 2 or 3 (1, grip usually 31/32), 1 for thumb, 1 for slug if desired (1 1/4 or 1 3/8").
The Jig is really the critical piece as it controls your pitches. If it's not right, your pitches aren't. I disagree on the need for x-y table. I do all my oval shaping by hand.
If you plan on plugging balls, get 1 gallon, it will last forever. You can use plumbers putty to build damns if you don't want to buy the sticky damns. Sticky works best.
Some sort of plug cutter, if you have a router you can modify to cut plugs. Ball spinner, drawing scale, pitch gauges (the plastic one is fine). Bevel sander, bevel knife, ball cups. With the new weight rules, I don't think a scale is needed anymore assuming the ball has reasonable top and you don't get silly with the layout.
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johns811 where you live, I have stuff
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johns811 where you live, I have stuff
I have everything, see original poster.
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I drill at home. I suggest trying to find a drill with basic jig. You could probably find something for around $500 used. For bits, you can get away with 2 or 3 (1, grip usually 31/32), 1 for thumb, 1 for slug if desired (1 1/4 or 1 3/8").
The Jig is really the critical piece as it controls your pitches. If it's not right, your pitches aren't. I disagree on the need for x-y table. I do all my oval shaping by hand.
If you plan on plugging balls, get 1 gallon, it will last forever. You can use plumbers putty to build damns if you don't want to buy the sticky damns. Sticky works best.
Some sort of plug cutter, if you have a router you can modify to cut plugs. Ball spinner, drawing scale, pitch gauges (the plastic one is fine). Bevel sander, bevel knife, ball cups. With the new weight rules, I don't think a scale is needed anymore assuming the ball has reasonable top and you don't get silly with the layout.
Thanks for the input.
Meant to write this in original post but forgot.
I'm in Europe and we have much less access to a lot of the parts so finding a used drill with jig is more or less out of the question. Have never seen any kind of "pro shop" equipment for sale here.
So still looking for advice on how to get a jig. My ideas so far is buying new from the US and deal with shipping and taxes, provided I can find one from a company that ships overseas. Alternative is DIY but from what you write it might not be a good idea.
How do you drill an oval without an x-y table? Reposition the jig?
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The ultimate DIY ball drilling
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KMT Ball Jig is the easiest and cheapest alternative for DIY. I was very skeptical and tested it before we sold them when I worked for BP. I was pleasantly surprised of the quality of the unit and how well it worked.
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KMT Ball Jig is the easiest and cheapest alternative for DIY. I was very skeptical and tested it before we sold them when I worked for BP. I was pleasantly surprised of the quality of the unit and how well it worked.
From what I can tell that is a fixed pitch jig? So I have no room for experimentation. It would work good for reproducing what I have but if I think my current pitch is a bit of I can't change it with that jig.
Or?
PS: my posts are still under moderation so my replies are late.
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I drill at home. I suggest trying to find a drill with basic jig. You could probably find something for around $500 used. For bits, you can get away with 2 or 3 (1, grip usually 31/32), 1 for thumb, 1 for slug if desired (1 1/4 or 1 3/8").
The Jig is really the critical piece as it controls your pitches. If it's not right, your pitches aren't. I disagree on the need for x-y table. I do all my oval shaping by hand.
If you plan on plugging balls, get 1 gallon, it will last forever. You can use plumbers putty to build damns if you don't want to buy the sticky damns. Sticky works best.
Some sort of plug cutter, if you have a router you can modify to cut plugs. Ball spinner, drawing scale, pitch gauges (the plastic one is fine). Bevel sander, bevel knife, ball cups. With the new weight rules, I don't think a scale is needed anymore assuming the ball has reasonable top and you don't get silly with the layout.
Thanks for the input.
Meant to write this in original post but forgot.
I'm in Europe and we have much less access to a lot of the parts so finding a used drill with jig is more or less out of the question. Have never seen any kind of "pro shop" equipment for sale here.
So still looking for advice on how to get a jig. My ideas so far is buying new from the US and deal with shipping and taxes, provided I can find one from a company that ships overseas. Alternative is DIY but from what you write it might not be a good idea.
How do you drill an oval without an x-y table? Reposition the jig?
I don't drill oval, but I could with carefully repositioning the ball. I manually oval holes by using various tool, either manually or with a grinding type bit I put in a manual electric drill. It take a bit of time and patience, I use a caliper to measure and eventually get it right. Worst case is reslug if you mess it up. The simplest of jigs is an x-y rudell jig and drill that would work. I imagine it takes some work to get the jig positioned and attached correctly so the pitches are correct.
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You can buy different pitch plates for the KMT. Maybe not the unit if you want to do a lot of experimenting, but you could buy extra pitch plates and inter change them as necessary.
Swinging the head or lowering the table would require you to recalibrate the jig. You could probably get away with removing the ball from the jig to change bits.
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I was actually starting to warm up to the KMT even with some of its limitations but then I realized that it would cost $200 to ship it to me (shipping + taxes/duties). Not worth it.
Unfortunately I also realized that the drill press I was considering measured the gap from spindle to table and not from chuck so not enough gap with an x-y table added :(
I still think the x-y table is needed, if not for ovals then for pitch.
The jig I'm actually confident I can DIY after having studied the one at the pro-shop where I bowl.
But for now I'm kind of back to square one as the only drill press options I'm aware of now would be on a floor stand and I don't want that.
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I realize I misspoke in one of my posts. The most basic Jig IS an xy table. It is used for pitches. It moves the ball off center for pitches. I can post a picture if you like.
This is a Rudell XY that can be mounted to a drill press.
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/1211/13/bowling-ball-drill-jig-rudell_1_fc08b7820f7655933be7c934232ce967.jpg
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Thanks again!
I think I'm pretty clear on what I need now. Just have to figure out how I go about acquiring the items...
Even a simple thing like the drill bits will be a bit of a challenge since you still have not discovered the metric system and do things the ancient way :) Hard to come by here.
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I still think your best shot is to try to find a used press.
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I still think your best shot is to try to find a used press.
That is probably the best thing but there are no used presses to find here. Very different, as in MUCH smaller, market from the US when it comes to bowling and there is zero market for "pro shop tools" for personal use.
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It sounds like your best bet is to offer to do some plug work or other small tasks at your local pro shop in exchange for using their equipment.
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I would like to drill my balls at home. Basically just as a hobby and for fun. Willing to put some money into it but the sky is not the limit.
Just need to understand what I need at a minimum.
To get a idea of what to get, you should look at Jayhawks "Pro shop in a box" packages.
http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Pro_Shop_Packages/packages.html (http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Pro_Shop_Packages/packages.html)
Now they may cost more than you want to spend (I think the cheapest one is about 5K), But they list what comes in it. From that you could determine just what pieces you need and can afford.
Mini Mill with Jet Press or Pro Jig with Jet Press
24 Bit Set
Bit Holder
BT Fitter
Jayhawk Pro Model Ball Spinner
High Speed Sander
Spyder Layout Tool
Brunwick Rough Buff Quarts (1 Quart)
Brunswick Factory Finish (1 Quart)
Jayhawk Tri Roller
Bevel Knives (2)
Classic Pitch Gauges
Jayhawk Span Tool
Turbo Pro Sect
DBA Ball Plug
DBA Ball Plug Pumps
DBA Ball Plug Color Kit
PTS Thumb Plug Dams
PTS Finger Plug Dams
Yellow Grease Pencils (12)
Jayhawk Drill Pads (2)
Vantage Ball Cups (12)
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I would like to drill my balls at home. Basically just as a hobby and for fun. Willing to put some money into it but the sky is not the limit.
Just need to understand what I need at a minimum.
To get a idea of what to get, you should look at Jayhawks "Pro shop in a box" packages.
http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Pro_Shop_Packages/packages.html (http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Pro_Shop_Packages/packages.html)
Now they may cost more than you want to spend (I think the cheapest one is about 5K), But they list what comes in it. From that you could determine just what pieces you need and can afford.
Mini Mill with Jet Press or Pro Jig with Jet Press
24 Bit Set
Bit Holder
BT Fitter
Jayhawk Pro Model Ball Spinner
High Speed Sander
Spyder Layout Tool
Brunwick Rough Buff Quarts (1 Quart)
Brunswick Factory Finish (1 Quart)
Jayhawk Tri Roller
Bevel Knives (2)
Classic Pitch Gauges
Jayhawk Span Tool
Turbo Pro Sect
DBA Ball Plug
DBA Ball Plug Pumps
DBA Ball Plug Color Kit
PTS Thumb Plug Dams
PTS Finger Plug Dams
Yellow Grease Pencils (12)
Jayhawk Drill Pads (2)
Vantage Ball Cups (12)
The problem is finding a drill press / mill that works and does not cost many arms and legs. Not been able to find anything similar to what is offered in the pro-shop packages unless I look at mills even more expensive than the packages. Could be my poor google mojo though.
Out of the rest in that list a lot of things can be skipped at least to begin with (only need two bits to start with for instance, one for fingers and one for thumb sleeve). Do need epoxy so I can fill in and practice on a ball. Spinner can wait. Etc.
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When I got my drill I used an old ball that would never be used again and drilled it about 4-5 times in different spots as I learned how to do all the pitches and spans. I never bothered plugging and redrilling until much later.
The minimum is drill with jig, bits, layout tool + pencil, bevel sander. Pitch gauge. Grips if you use them, super glue, Slugs if you use them. Bit for slug, tools to oval thumb
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The problem is finding a drill press / mill that works and does not cost many arms and legs. Not been able to find anything similar to what is offered in the pro-shop packages unless I look at mills even more expensive than the packages. Could be my poor google mojo though.
What do you consider a "Arm & Leg" cost for a Press, Mill and Ball Jig, Put a price on them.
That would help everyone point you in the right direction.
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Can't say I have put a firm limit on cost but I would like to get all that I need to start for no more than $1k.
The mills I have seen that can fit a ball all seem to be $5k and up (with the sky as the limit). Drill presses are a lot more affordable and I'm hoping to get away with a tad over $500 if I just know what specs I need. To that I need to add a x-y table for around $200 and the drill bits plus some other parts of the essential tools to get started.he Jig I plan to DIY but will be some cost there as well.
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Small suggestion to any DIYer
A possible work around drilling ovals is to:
A) If you already have a thumb you like, buy a thumb mold making kit
B) Buy a oval vinyl slug and use instead
C) Buy an oval vinyl slug, and mold that to get urethane feel (if anyone does this, carefully cover slug with scotch tape and then mold. Vinyl material and silicone mold don't like each other.
For small amounts of plugging material, can use smooth-cast 300 series. I have used this and actual bowling ball plugging plastics, it's the same thing. But smooth-cast will only save you money if you need small amount.
Smooth cast has both urethane material you can plug ball with, and silicone molding material. If anyone wants to DIY thumb mold, I've used both smooth cast silicone and the molding silicone they sell for bowling. The smooth cast silicone is much easier to use, and far cheaper. A trial kit costs like $30 and that's enough to make many molds if mess up.
By the time I was done with my DIY ball press and jig, that cost hundreds. But I saw no other option if I wanted to actually do this at home, in my limited space and not spend thousands.
I actually don't really recommend people build their own drill press unless they are crazy (like me), it took me 8 months to design and dozens of hours to construct, but at least now I can drill anything I want to within 1/16 pitch accuracy. But there are many videos on youtube of how to make your own drill press, and then can buy a jig.
To save on drill bits -
first drill a small pilot hole, then use a $3 spade bit. (although they don't make 31/32 spade bits). This will work for slugs or the 7/8 diameter grips.
Of course an actual bowling ball drill bit works better. I've done the above with spade bits, but did eventually buy all the bowling drill bits I need.
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I actually don't really recommend people build their own drill press unless they are crazy (like me), it took me 8 months to design and dozens of hours to construct, but at least now I can drill anything I want to within 1/16 pitch accuracy. But there are many videos on youtube of how to make your own drill press, and then can buy a jig.
I might be missing something here, would not be the first time.
What was the complication in building a rig? Seems fairly straight forward to me.
Get a drill press with enough space between spindle and table.
Mount an x-y table on it.
Construct a Jig and mount on the x-y table. Ensure it is centered.
Or are you talking about building a drill press as well?
As for ovals, since I use thumb inserts I can start by using what I have and then get new ones from my PSO but I would like to be able to drill my own.
Not sure if it would be possible but since I actually own a mill (not enough clearance for a ball) I could probably make a Jig for the insert and make the ovals in that.
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I quite literally built my own drill press and jig out of wood. Well, I bought a hand drill and mounted it. Most of the wooden components had to be preciously cut at a lumbar yard.
I tried to post of picture of it someplace above. It may not look like much, but I can drill very precisely with it.
I also played around doing a lot of pro-shop things in a DIY manner. So I like to think I know some things about DIY ball drilling.
I made numerous ovals for myself by molding sleeves, or filling in tape to a drilled how so I had a perfect oval that matched my thumb, and molded that.
What I eventually learned after going to countless ball drillers over 2 decades, trying dozens of drilling, and then dozens more that I made myself, pitch changes, span, bevel, everything, is that due to the configuration of my hand and certain past injuries, there is simply no drilling that would allow me to use my thumb well. My home drilling was out of pure frustration that NOTHING ever worked well.
Now I'm a no-thumb bowler and much happier. I can also buy whatever I want and just drill 2 holes in half an hour and I'm done.
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Ahh, yes I saw that picture. Just didn't connect it to your latest post. Sorry.
While I'm happy to do a bit of DIY that is too much for me. Rather spend the money than that amount of time.
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Scour your area for a used Jet bench mount mill/drill. You can buy new for $2000 so you should be able to find used in the $500 range. Something that will be considered worn out to a machinist is more than good enough to drill a bowling ball. This will solve the problem of spindle travel and xy movement. Secure a ring/ball cup to the table that will hold the ball. Fabricate a top plate to hold the ball securely and tighten it using threaded rod, washers and wing nuts.
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Scour your area for a used Jet bench mount mill/drill. You can buy new for $2000 so you should be able to find used in the $500 range. Something that will be considered worn out to a machinist is more than good enough to drill a bowling ball. This will solve the problem of spindle travel and xy movement. Secure a ring/ball cup to the table that will hold the ball. Fabricate a top plate to hold the ball securely and tighten it using threaded rod, washers and wing nuts.
Jet seems to have a very limited presence in Europe. While googling I did find the Jet JMD-18 but I have not managed to find any source in Europe. So finding it used would be hard...
Not found any similar Mills in Europe (hence my $5k guestimate). This could of course also be because I don't know how/where to search.
There is at least one brand similar to Jet but their mills are smaller and will not fit a bowling ball (in fact I actually own one).
While I can find used mills at least sort of local they all seem to be older industrial models that need a fork lift to move (and they are still expensive).
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I'm actually going to correct myself.
Axminster in Europe seem to be the same(ish) as Jet at least for some of their products.
So the JMD-18 does exist under the name ZX30M. Same Chinese mill with different names.
Still going to be really hard finding a used one and right now it seems they are out of stock (seem to go for most of the Aminster mills so maybe something going on there).
Also just now noticed the weight. No idea how one is supposed to carry that up or down stairs in the house :)