Author Topic: span and pitch qustion (Read 4127 times)

xxZonexx · « **on:** January 24, 2006, 03:48:34 PM »

I just got my hand remeasured and for awhile it was good my thum has a blister on it now it seems like the span is to short and i got 0 left right in my thumb now. Now i want to change the pitch in the thumb so i can get out of the ball alittle better. What way should i should i go if i put 1/8 in left, would that get me out of the ball alittle quicker ?
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Re-Evolution · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2006, 01:33:49 AM »

It depends on your hand structure.
Where is the blister.
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xxZonexx · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2006, 08:22:25 AM »

top of the nuckele to left side of it
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Pinbuster · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2006, 08:35:00 AM »

You left or right handed?

Generally if the blister is on the top of the thumb it means you are bending your thumb in the ball and the hole is too big.

Could be a lack of bevel is forcing your thumb into the back of the thumb hole on exit.

Most right handers get out of the ball better with right pitch.

It is hard to say without seeing.

xxZonexx · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2006, 08:38:36 AM »

yup right handed just seems like the span is to short or something its hard to tell
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Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2006, 09:11:23 AM »

As far as the length of the span, put your thumb into the ball completely and lay your fingers overtop on the finger holes, not stretched, but comfortable. The first joint of your fingers should be somewhere near the center of the hole. Most people have a span which is too long; when this is corrected it takes some time to get used to the new span (and generally does feel short).

Strictly speaking, more left lateral pitch (assuming you are right handed) will cause you to raise your track or decrease the tilt of the ball. For a starting point, find a plastic bottle (I find that the 16.9 oz aquafina water bottles are about perfect), and comfortably grab around the bottle. Do this a couple times and check where the center of your thumb nail is pointing in relation to your fingers (Mine points between the index and middle finger). The general rule is as follows:
Index Finger --> 1/8 L
Between index and middle --> 0
middle -- 1/8 R
between middle and ring -- 2/8 R
Etc
Etc
This gives a good starting point for lateral pitch.

For forward and reverse pitch, it is based upon span. A span of 4 1/4 should have generally around 0 pitch. Longer than 4 1/4" goes reverse (every 1/4" increase in span correlates to 1/8" in pitch) and shorter than 4 1/4" uses forward. There are some other factors such as thumb length, etc, etc, but generally speaking...

The formation of a blister on the back of your thumb can be a result of many things. As mentioned above, possibly knuckling or slightly bending the thumb in order to keep grip of the ball. This can result from the thumb hole being too big OR too much reverse pitch in the thumb hole...or muscle in the swing. I would start simple and go from there. Make sure hole fits properly..snug enough that very little pressure keeps the ball on your thumb, but you are able to still exit cleanly. If this doesn't work, look at the pitches. Maybe you need some additional forward to help hang onto the ball?

I would try those ideas first...

Good luck!
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xxZonexx · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2006, 09:27:32 AM »

thanks that makes alot of sence because my old span if i put my thumb in the ball and laid my fingers over the wholes my frist nuckle joint was about 1/16 past the grips, now they are about centered over the wholes. As far as pitches i got a water bottle did that a few times and my thumb is centered between my ring and index finger
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Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2006, 10:23:18 AM »

quote:
thanks that makes alot of sence because my old span if i put my thumb in the ball and laid my fingers over the wholes my frist nuckle joint was about 1/16 past the grips, now they are about centered over the holes.

Span sounds as if its about right now...

quote:

As far as pitches i got a water bottle did that a few times and my thumb is centered between my ring and index finger

Ring and middle? That calls for about 1/4" right lateral or under towards the palm....at least according to bill taylor. Personally I think it is a matter of comfort though... I call for 0 lateral pitch but use 1/8 or 1/4 left in most of my equipment...
I would work on the thumb hole size (white tape in the front and black in the back), trying to keep it as even as possible (as amount of tape in front as in back) until you have a snug fit where you do not need to squeeze in order to hold onto the ball.
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xxZonexx · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2006, 10:51:20 AM »

K sounds good, i tryed using a tight thumb whole i couldent get a good release on it one time it would come off good next it would stick, so i think im going to try a vent whole and use some tape too thanks for your help !
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JohnP · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:11:46 AM »

quote:
Most right handers get out of the ball better with right pitch.

Storm Track -- I've got to disagree with this, unless by "right" you mean correct. Pitching the thumb to the left, or away from the palm, (beyond what your thumb hinge calls for) allows a cleaner release, pitching it to the right requires you to turn the ball in the release to get out cleanly. If you go far enough to the right, the bowler will hang in the thumb unless he does turn the ball. For thumb position between the ring and middle fingers, I use 0 lateral pitch for most customers. I don't use the Coke bottle method, but use a manual manipulation of the thumb that gives roughly the same results.

xxZonexx -- My thoughts on your problem. First, it's really hard to analyze this without knowing what your span and thumb pitches are and/or analyzing your hand in person. As has already been mentioned, "knuckling" the thumb will cause this type blister (you said the blister is on top of your knuckle, left side. I'm assuming this is if you are looking at the nail side of the thumb. To anyone familiar with how balls are fitted, this would be considered the right side.) If you're not knuckling, your thumb pitches are not right for your combination of flexibility and spans. Others have suggested more forward pitch, which is the "fad" in thumb pitches right now, but I'll bet if the thumb hole is sized correctly you need more reverse and possibly left pitch. Give us your spans and forward/reverse pitch so we'll have a better idea. -- JohnP

Pinbuster · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:43:52 AM »

JohnP it was me that said it not StormTrack.

I donâ€™t like the term palm pitch because it then becomes related to the hand.

When looking at a measuring sheet the thumb is at the bottom of the sheet. When you pitch the bottom of the thumb hole to the right this is right pitch.

When you are holding the ball it is the effect of the bottom of the thumb hole pointing towards the little finger.

Left pitch has your thumb pointing more at the index finger.

Of right handed bowlers I have seen measured I would guess 80% used no pitch or right pitch. The rest use some degree of left pitch.

Each individual is unique in release and physiology so no universal statement can be made without fitting.

We had the individual throw a Jayhawk adjustable measuring ball to us in the air with the pitches we were testing so we could see how the span, pitches, hole sizes, and their release all worked together. (You made sure it didnâ€™t drop those little $1000 dollar items when they were thrown to you).

JohnP · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2006, 10:05:22 PM »

Storm Track -- Sorry, I have no idea how I got the names mixed up.

Pinbuster -- I understand the pitch directions, but a lot of non-drillers don't, so the toward and away from the palm helps to clarify which direction we're talking about. I also use an adjustable fitting ball, and agree that the only proper way to determine pitches is by analyzing the hand in person. Now, do you agree that once a customer's proper lateral pitch is determined adding left pitch results in a cleaner release and adding right pitch requires the hand to turn in the release to get out cleanly? -- JohnP

Amigo2 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:42:33 PM »

Just my thoughts on this topic. I have found when going to a shorter span there is a tendency to squeeze the ball. Close attention to forward or reverse pitch is essential when shortening spans.

I have gone to 4 1/4 x 4 3/8 with 1/4 forward & 1/8 left, and away in the fingers with 3/4 center line transfer. I'm a righty. With the right amount of bevel I can use a tighter thumb. The ball lays in my hand real nice. Almost like a virgin!

I have a laminated card that I carry in my billfold so that my measurements are always with me. It seems that when I go to another pro shop they always want to drill it their way. I hear Stretch it out, reverse in the thumb not so much away in the fingers. Especially some of the wonders at nationals. Now I get it my way, it took a long time to find someone that could fit me properly.

Amigo
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Pinbuster · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2006, 07:02:50 AM »

JohnP â€“ I believe we have the same general beliefs. But like everything there are exceptions. Some bowlers release is cleaner/better when pitches towards the palm.

Most bowlers get a quicker release if you pitch towards the palm but it is not always a better release. That is why the measuring ball is such an invaluable tool to find the pitches that give the cleanest and most consistent release without thought by the bowler.

Just like in general additional reverse causes a bowler to get out of the ball earlier. But some bowlers will simply grip the ball harder to hang on and end up sticking.

JohnP · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2006, 03:21:51 PM »

Pinbuster -- To see why I think as I do, hold your hand in a grip position (not in the ball). Now, move your thumb toward the left pitch direction. Moves very easily and quite far, doesn't it? Now force it toward the right pitch direction. Now, see why excess right pitch (and again, I'm talking about more that the thumb hinge calls for - you're right, some bowler's thumbs hinge toward the right) will cause release problems? -- JohnP

Edited on 1/26/2006 9:35 PM

Author Topic: span and pitch qustion (Read 4127 times)

xxZonexx

span and pitch qustion

Re-Evolution

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xxZonexx

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