Author Topic: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction? (Read 8371 times)

Juggernaut · « **on:** March 21, 2016, 08:07:53 AM »

Had a question posed to me, but try as I might, I just was never able to get my head wrapped around it and postulate an answer, so I thought I would bring it here.

Guy wants to drill a ball with an aggressive type shell, yet end up with a very controlled and continuous reaction. His suggestion was like this:

About a 5 1/2 inch pin to pap, 35-40 degree val angle and around 40-45 degree drill angle. THEN, he wants to put the x-hole just below the pin, between it and the finger holes, drilling out the top of the weightblock.

I understand that without more precise info, pretty much theorizing is all that can be done, but that is more than I have been able to do on my own.

Drilling out the top of the weightblock would lower the rg, wouldn't it? And if so, wouldn't that tend to make it roll earlier and smoother than before? Yet, with the pin that far from pap, wouldn't that tend to promote length? Can you do both at the same time and make them coexist happily?

My initial reaction was that there has to be a better way to do this, but without being able to really figure out the results of the experiment mentally, I cannot begin to compare it to the effects of known drillings and reactions.

If anybody would care to run this experiment on blueprint ( or maybe already has ) it would be quite enlightening to me to find out the results.

JohnP · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2016, 10:44:28 AM »

First question - asymmetrical of symmetrical ball and if asymmetrical what's the MB strength? -- JohnP

Juggernaut · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2016, 11:46:02 AM »

Most likely symetrical. The person in question doesn't really like asymms much.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2016, 09:09:43 PM »

JohnP · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2016, 10:20:54 AM »

I don't have a good answer to the question. Perhaps the best solution would be to try the layout in question. But if the balance hole location is where I think you intend to placed it, be sure it doesn't hit the finger holes. -- JohnP

Juggernaut · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2016, 08:21:21 PM »

Gotcha.

Thanks for at least trying. Guess we'll get and old ball and just have to try it out.

I'm trying to talk him into just getting a ball with a lower rg to begin with and drill it with a lower flaring drilling to start with instead of "experimenting" to create something that already exists.

But, he likes the chase, and will probably end up drilling one just to see................

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2016, 09:04:48 PM »

With what you mentioned the pin to cg distance will matter because of the drill angle listed. The cg is going to be out on the positive side of the ball and require a weight hole that likely won't be between the pin and fingers unless the ball has a 0-1" pin which if symmetric like you suggest the val angle is irrelevant.

Channelsurfer · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2016, 09:49:24 AM »

Val angle is very relevant in symmetrical.....the drill angle is irrelevant. PSA ends up in the thumb area so drill angle doesn't matter. Val angle controls length of the hook zone and differentials.....shorter val angles higher diffs, larger val angle lower diffs.

johns811 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2016, 12:22:15 PM »

Quote from: Juggernaut on March 22, 2016, 08:21:21 PM

Gotcha.

Thanks for at least trying. Guess we'll get and old ball and just have to try it out.

I'm trying to talk him into just getting a ball with a lower rg to begin with and drill it with a lower flaring drilling to start with instead of "experimenting" to create something that already exists.

But, he likes the chase, and will probably end up drilling one just to see................

I agree completely. Then tweak the surface.

kotm · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2016, 05:19:10 PM »

Quote from: Juggernaut on March 21, 2016, 08:07:53 AM

Had a question posed to me, but try as I might, I just was never able to get my head wrapped around it and postulate an answer, so I thought I would bring it here.

Guy wants to drill a ball with an aggressive type shell, yet end up with a very controlled and continuous reaction. His suggestion was like this:

About a 5 1/2 inch pin to pap, 35-40 degree val angle and around 40-45 degree drill angle. THEN, he wants to put the x-hole just below the pin, between it and the finger holes, drilling out the top of the weightblock.

I understand that without more precise info, pretty much theorizing is all that can be done, but that is more than I have been able to do on my own.

Drilling out the top of the weightblock would lower the rg, wouldn't it? And if so, wouldn't that tend to make it roll earlier and smoother than before? Yet, with the pin that far from pap, wouldn't that tend to promote length? Can you do both at the same time and make them coexist happily?

My initial reaction was that there has to be a better way to do this, but without being able to really figure out the results of the experiment mentally, I cannot begin to compare it to the effects of known drillings and reactions.

If anybody would care to run this experiment on blueprint ( or maybe already has ) it would be quite enlightening to me to find out the results.

Drilling the extra hole as described will raise the RG's and lower the differentials, resulting in less track migration. The ball would skid farther and have a smoother back end reaction than without the hole. I personally used to use a similar layout, with 90-105 drilling angles, in short pinned mild asymmetrical balls from Faball and EBI in the late 90's... when I could hook the snot out of a ball. Worked wonders back then on wet/dry house shots and heavily tracked wood lanes.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2016, 10:12:00 AM »

Using the following info and laying the ball out 45 x 5.5 x 35 for a bowler with the span of 4.5" and a pap of 5.25" x 0.

Depending on the ball specs of pin and top weight you would be better off just using a weight hole 2.25" up the val, or in from the pap to reduce flare instead of trying to fit it between the fingers and pin or there about.

I added small dashes on the line between the pin and psa marking 1" 2" 3" and 4" to show where the cg would end up.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #11 on:** March 27, 2016, 05:31:32 AM »

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP GUYS!

Kidlost, that is almost exactly what I was trying to get him to do instead. He wants to control the breakpoint, and from what I've seen, x-holes up the val help do that a lot.

He still wants it to have a decently aggressive nature, just not go "apesh*t" off the breakpoint like it tends to do for him. He would like to play up the boards instead of around them.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 27, 2016, 09:50:02 AM »

Guy wants to drill a ball with an aggressive type shell, yet end up with a very controlled and continuous reaction. His suggestion was like this:

About a 5 1/2 inch pin to pap, 35-40 degree val angle THEN, he wants to put the x-hole just below the pin, between it and the finger holes, drilling out the top of the weightblock.

He wants to control the breakpoint,

He still wants it to have a decently aggressive nature, just not go "apesh*t" off the breakpoint like it tends to do for him. He would like to play up the boards instead of around them.

What is his style as a bowler? Speed dominant, rev dominant, equal, about what speed and what rev rate would you guess? What kind of condition is he bowling on? Lots of backends, little lighter oil, medium oil etc. Wood or synthetic lanes?

The reason being is we have a lot of contradicting stuff in what he is looking for which is not shocking in bowling. There are much better ball and layout options along with surface that could easily achieve this.

First thing that comes to mind is maybe he has higher revs, or just slower ball speed which can lead to a ball having a faster response to friction as it is slowing down from the skid phase to the hook phase.

If you can get some info on the questions above I think there is a much better option he will like versus over spending on a ball because of something he read and then was suggested to him online.(which is what it sounds like) Or if you have a video of him bowling you could add that would be great.

tkkshop · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2016, 10:45:30 AM »

80*4.25*30. The hole is same size as inserts and 2 inches deep. Ball is clean and stands up on the backend.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #14 on:** March 27, 2016, 11:05:35 AM »

Well, this is part of the problem. There is no video of him. and anything I can tell you about him would only be generalizations.

He hasn't bowled in 2-3 years. He's finally had a knee replacement, and is wanting to get something drilled up that he can control, but he also doesn't want a "piece of junk", so to speak. Knowing him, he would prefer something with the STORM logo on it though.

He is going to be bowling on medium conditions, on synthetic surface. He used to be slightly rev dominant, with a speed from the scorekeeper showing 14-15 mph, but his exact pap is unknown. Heck, there isn't any guarantee he is even going to throw the ball anything like he used to though.

What I was actually leaning towards was first finding his actual pap, then setting up a Rocket with a 75(val angle) X 4 X 45(drilling angle), then adjusting the surface and adding a P1 hole if needed to further tame the reaction.

He LOVES to play a "fallback" shot, targeting between 15 and 20, and just float the ball to the pocket, letting it turn over and just roll through the rack

Author Topic: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction? (Read 8371 times)

Juggernaut

What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

JohnP

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

Juggernaut

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

Juggernaut

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

JohnP

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

Juggernaut

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

kidlost2000

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

Channelsurfer

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

johns811

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

kotm

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

kidlost2000

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

Juggernaut

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

kidlost2000

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

tkkshop

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?

Juggernaut

Re: What effect would this drilling have on ball reaction?