Author Topic: what if... (PAP question) (Read 2516 times)

APheLion · « **on:** July 20, 2007, 12:38:41 PM »

this is the situation, i found out that i can track in 2 very different areas (on purpose) depending on the condition. I track low when i play the big wheel and i track high if i play straight.

then comes the question, when i layout a ball, what do i do? the pap is gonna be different. should i then just go for conventional layouts?
--------------------
When a house bowler misses the mark, misses the break point and strike, for many ppl its called a wallshot. When a pro does that its call adjustment

When a house bowler gets his finger stuck in the ball and fall on the lanes, for many ppl its called lame bowler. When a pro does that its called the Machuga flop! ha i like this one.

spinner031 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2007, 08:46:49 PM »

You've bought the ball for a certain purpose, you're going to lay it out for a certain purpose, so, use the PAP that you would use when throwing that ball.

For example, if you want a ball for heavy oil and you want to play straighter. So, you buy a high-performance ball, drill it 3 3/8 x 3 3/8, and you would use the higher track's PAP coordinates to lay it out. Unfortunately, you may not find this useful if you want to use the same ball on different patterns, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if you lay a ball out with the high track's coordinates and throw it with a lower track.

OR you could ONLY throw with one type or rotation, therefore ONE track, and you wouldn't have to worry about such things.

APheLion · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2007, 09:41:24 PM »

interesting, the thing is i want to be versatile

for example, today i got 15 in a row, on the left lane i was hookin the ball a lot and on the right lane i went straight until a stone 7 in the 10th frame took my 300 away
--------------------
When a house bowler misses the mark, misses the break point and strike, for many ppl its called a wallshot. When a pro does that its call adjustment

When a house bowler gets his finger stuck in the ball and fall on the lanes, for many ppl its called lame bowler. When a pro does that its called the Machuga flop! ha i like this one.

jgreenwd · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2007, 12:51:47 AM »

I used to experience a similar situation. What I did was just find the PAP for both tracks, and the resultant pin-to-PAP distances. I just treated it as extra information; an extra tool in my kit.

Oddly enough, for me, with pin-to-PAP's around 2-3/8 (which I like), the higher track would actually move that to a 3-3/8 pin-to-PAP, creating more flare. That was pretty handy to know with some high differential balls.

JohnP · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2007, 10:36:44 AM »

quote:
then comes the question, when i layout a ball, what do i do? the pap is gonna be different. should i then just go for conventional layouts?

The PAP MAY be different, but it doesn't HAVE to be different. It may be easier for you to visualize this by thinking of the negative axis point (NAP), which is directly on the other side of the ball from the PAP and is the center of the initial track ring. Around the NAP are an infinite number of concentric circles, representing different initial tracks, ALL WITH THE SAME NAP and PAP. What IS changing is the axis tilt and possibly the axis rotation. Many bowlers can vary these (and thus their ball reaction) without changing their PAP. What you need to do is to determine your PAP for each way you release the ball so you'll know. -- JohnP

Edited on 7/21/2007 10:38 AM

qstick777 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2007, 03:11:16 PM »

quote:
quote:
then comes the question, when i layout a ball, what do i do? the pap is gonna be different. should i then just go for conventional layouts?

The PAP MAY be different, but it doesn't HAVE to be different. It may be easier for you to visualize this by thinking of the negative axis point (NAP), which is directly on the other side of the ball from the PAP and is the center of the initial track ring. Around the NAP are an infinite number of concentric circles, representing different initial tracks, ALL WITH THE SAME NAP and PAP. What IS changing is the axis tilt and possibly the axis rotation. Many bowlers can vary these (and thus their ball reaction) without changing their PAP. What you need to do is to determine your PAP for each way you release the ball so you'll know. -- JohnP

Edited on 7/21/2007 10:38 AM

Very interesting. I always wondered if the PAP could change, but I guess I never knew how to ask the question properly. Generally speaking, most people have said that the PAP doesn't really change, even if you alter the release. Sort of like your PAP is unique to you and very difficult to change.

My release is very inconsistent - possibly because very few of my balls are drilled identically (as far as fit goes). I can feel considerable differences in certain balls when I throw them - some feeling like I need to turn my wrist more to get out cleanly, while others allow me to stay in longer and come more up the back. It's never really bothered me as the release seemed to correspond to the reaction I was looking for (arcing vs skip/flip).

John's explanation makes more sense to me since I've measured my PAP on one ball and came up with 4 7/8 x 1/2 up. Measuring with a different ball I came up with 5 1/2 x 3/8 up. That ends up being a difference of around 1/2" in pin to PAP measurement. I guess that is also why I've thought I was a high tracker (clipping thumb hole on pin-under drillings), but was told that 4 7/8 x 1/2 is not a high tracking PAP - I guess 5 1/2 x 3/8 is closer to a high tracker?

--------------------
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ

Search Ballreviews entire database here

Mike Austin · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2007, 11:30:32 PM »

quote:
quote:
then comes the question, when i layout a ball, what do i do? the pap is gonna be different. should i then just go for conventional layouts?

The PAP MAY be different, but it doesn't HAVE to be different. It may be easier for you to visualize this by thinking of the negative axis point (NAP), which is directly on the other side of the ball from the PAP and is the center of the initial track ring. Around the NAP are an infinite number of concentric circles, representing different initial tracks, ALL WITH THE SAME NAP and PAP. What IS changing is the axis tilt and possibly the axis rotation. Many bowlers can vary these (and thus their ball reaction) without changing their PAP. What you need to do is to determine your PAP for each way you release the ball so you'll know. -- JohnP

Edited on 7/21/2007 10:38 AM

This is kinda the direction I am thinking too. You should put tape on the side of the ball and actually SEE if your PAP changes. I can make my ball reaction change dramatically by what I do with my hand. My PAP doesn't change. The tilt changes some, rotation a little, ball definitely rolls differently.

Yeah, what JohnP said!

MikeA
--------------------
Driller to many "Stars" and Tony Melendez too!

Check out my project: www.mikeaustinbowling.net

CHECK OUT MY BLOGS! www.myspace.com/strikes4days

Oskuposer · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2007, 11:44:03 PM »

Im in the same boat but when i slow hook it my track inverts and my pap is 4 over and 1/4 down and when i go straight up its 5/38 straight across and thats the same with everyball.
--------------------
I am the Righty Rick Larence minus wrist guard.(crutch)
Good bowlers use the Big B
Kiall Hill
"Captain Fidget"
"Thanks Randy"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"

Author Topic: what if... (PAP question) (Read 2516 times)

APheLion

what if... (PAP question)

spinner031

Re: what if... (PAP question)

APheLion

Re: what if... (PAP question)

jgreenwd

Re: what if... (PAP question)

JohnP

Re: what if... (PAP question)

qstick777

Re: what if... (PAP question)

Mike Austin

Re: what if... (PAP question)

Oskuposer

Re: what if... (PAP question)